Hallo New Friends:
Noted refernece to the five pages of Wolke family in Oldenburg in the book "Pastor Heinrich zu Hone und Seine Famiklienforschung." Could anyone advise
me on how to obtain copies of those five pages? Travel distances to see are too great. Thank you.
Gary
I was curious as to whether the Oldenburg area had any particular role or
involvement during WWI or WWII? Any particular battles around there,
was there a Jewish population from there that was sent off, were the local
peoples particularly allied with or opposed to the Nazi regime?
Please excuse the potentially sensitive nature of the questions, but I don't
remember seeing this topic discussed before. I was told by my German family
that there was a large POW camp outside of Visbek/Erlte during WWI, and that
my grandfather's sister snuck food through the fence to the prisoners there,
one of them being a Belgian POW who returned to her farm after the war and
married her. I also happen to have a letter from my grandfather's brother,
a German soldier killed at Verdun, written a few days before he was killed
expressing his desire for the war to end so he could go home. I have the
pocketwatch he was wearing when he was buried alive by a shell explosion.
So those stories are nice, but I'm wondering if there's a larger context of
"Oldenburg during the wars" in which these stories would fit.
Thanks,
Chris
Chicago
Hello Gary,
you has luck, I have a copy of the book.
The Wolke family at this book lived in Vestrup-Hausstette - is this what would like see?
You should know, we have in our area also some other Wolke farms:
- Bakum-Molkenstrasse, Damme-Sierhausen, Damme-Fladderlohausen
Regards,
Werner Honkomp
Hello Werner Honkomp:
I have received the Wolke pages I had inquired about. Thank you for your efforts. Yes, I would be interested in the Wolke families in Bakum-Molkenstrasse, Damme-Sierhausen, and Damme-Fladderlohausen if it is not too much of a burden.
Kinds regards,
Gary Johnson
Hello, Werner Honkomp,
Arlen Brokopp here, from Lancaster, Wisconsin USA
I don't know how I got in the middle of all this Oldenburg genealogy stuff
but I to need some help. My brother and I are trying to make a connection
between the Brokops of Oldenburg and my Great Great Grand Father from West
Prussia. See link below.
Descendants of WILLIAM BROKOPP and CHRISTINA KIETZKE
Generation No. 1
1. WILLIAM 1 BROKOPP was born February 28, 1846 in Nichikorvo, [West Prussia] GERMANY, and died July 01, 1929 in ELROY, JUNEAU CO. WI. He married CHRISTINA KIETZKE Abt. 1874. She was born October 09, 1850 in GERMANY, and died March 23, 1923 in ELROY, JUNEAU CO. WI.
William also had a brother, John Brokopp Sr. March 26th 1844 in the same place.
There is also a sister, we only have her Married name,
Mrs. Gustov [v or u spelling] Singer, of Saginaw, Michigan.
As I said we are trying to find some tie to the Brokops in Oldenburg. My brother and I are coming to Heiden [southeast of Oldenburg] in May 2008
and want to visit the Brokops in Oldenburg. I have been in touch by e-mail and phone with
Peter Brokop on list below.
Brokop, Christian u. Britta Phone 01149 441 508847
Eichhörnchenweg 24
26131 Oldenburg Oldb
>
Brokop, Else 0441 74876
Ammerländer Heerstr. 30
26129 Oldenburg Oldb
>
Brokop, Ingrid u. Klaus 01149 441 507154
Rügener Ring 52
26131 Oldenburg Oldb
>
Brokop, Kurt Lederwaren 01149 441 75840
Wichelnstr. 31
26122 Oldenburg Oldb
>
Brokop, Peter 01149 441 681164
Haßforter Str. 42
26127 Oldenburg Oldb
>
Brokop, Sebastian 01149 441 5008523
26131 Oldenburg Oldb
>
Brokop, Tobias 01149 441 5008524
26131 Oldenburg Oldb
Oldenburg-L mailing list
Oldenburg-L@genealogy.net
Hello Gary,
the farmers history book listed this:
- Wolke Bakum-Molkenstrasse:
Cottage Wolke, 16 hectare, now Frilling(1913)
- 1562 Wolke by den Borde, - 1618 Johann by dem Borde, - 1669 Johann Wolke
- Wolke Damme-Sierhausen:
Cottage Wolke, 27 hectare
- 1724 first tax notice and then 1830
- Wolke-Hanenkamp Damme-Fladderlohausen I:
Cottage Wolke, 35 hectare
- 1724 first tax notice
- Wolke Damme-Faldderlohausen II:
Cottage Wolke, no size is given
- 1724 first tax notice and the 1830, before 1913 was sold
- Wolke Vestrup-Hausstette:
farm Wolke, 47 hectare, now Jaspers(1913)
- 1545 Gerd Steve, - 1568 & 1593 Wolteke Steven, - 1618 Woltke
- 1545 taxregister: 4 horses, 2 oxen, 9 cows, 12 cattles, 12 pigs, 38 sheep
- 1618 taxregister: 6 horses, 6 cows, 10 cattles, 7 pigs, 40 sheeps
(1618 - 1646 30 years war) http://www.pipeline.com/~cwa/TYWHome.htm
- 1669 taxregister: 2 horses, 2 cows, 12 sheeps
I hope it helps,
Werner Honkomp
Hello Ansgar:
Danka.
Gary
I was curious as to whether the Oldenburg area had any particular role or
involvement during WWI or WWII? Any particular battles around there,
was there a Jewish population from there that was sent off, were the local
peoples particularly allied with or opposed to the Nazi regime?
I guess I should respond here to. WWI was ended with an armistice to
end the slaughter and was expected to end with a just settlement based
upon Wilson's 13 points. That never happend and Germany always felt
betrayed which opened the door to WWII. The allies would not permit a
surrender unless it was under no conditions for WWII. This policy
required a full invasion and occupation of Germany including
Oldenburg. The British were given this task on the ground. They mostly
rolled through village after village without resistance. Here and
there some fanatics caused useless destruction but snce there was no
ammunition or supply equipment available any resistance was short
lived. Jews generally did not live on the land as farmers. Some were
in occupations like buying and selling farm animals and the Nazis
forbid dealing with them but even this was ignored. Tradition ruled.
Please excuse the potentially sensitive nature of the questions, but I don't
remember seeing this topic discussed before.
I think it would be more sensitive to discuss America's involvement in
the ethnic cleansing of Eastern Germany and giving these lands to
Poland, Russia and Czechoslovakia. Moving 16 million people out of
their homes carrying nothing but a handbag was supposed to be done
humanely but almost 2 million people died in the process. Germany's
actions against the Jews has been an open item since the end of the
war. Our own actions still escape history.
Fred
Fred
No one can deny that Oldenburg had a small jewish population which was vanished in WWII without any rumour?
Paul
Has anybody denied that? Let me give a little history of their plight.
During the 18th century there were very few Jews in the Duchy of
Oldenburg. Those who lived there were not considered as citizens of
the communities they lived in. They had to pay for protection and for
the right too settle which limited their presence pretty much to the
city of Oldenburg, Varel and Jever. By 1822 there were 91 so called
Schutzjuden (protected Jews) who paid a fee for the privilege of doing
business in the duchy. These were the heads of household and together
with their families totalled 746 people or less then 1/2% of the
population. In 1827 the duke granted the Jews of his land religious
freedom and provided the function of a chief rabbi to oversea their
schools and religious observances. By 1854 nine synagogues existed in
Oldenburg. (Berne, Cloppenburg, Delmenhorst, Jever, Oldenburg,
Ovelgönne, Varel, Vechta and Wlideshausen). A thorough revision of the
rights of the Jews was published in 1858 to enable them to be full
partners in the citizenship of the country. These rules lasted until
1927. After WWI the state subsidy for the Jewish community was
increased from 1500 to 4000 Reichsmark. 1932 brought an abrupt change
to all the laws which had been provided for the protection of the
Jews. The National Socialist state blamed the Jews for the WWI defeat
of Germany and enacted all manner of laws to force them out of the
country. Many left including the chief rabbi, Dr. Leo Trepp . Others
were 'resettled' or arrested and died in concentration camps. The Jews
of Oldenburg were mostly the businessmen who sold and traded goods in
the communities they lived in. The slow disappearance of the Jews was
not seen as an extermination attempt by the populace but mostly a
quiet move out of the country. There were no protests as nothing as
nefarious as what was actually happening behind the scenes was
believable - even though all the synagogues had been burned on
Krystallnacht this was just a bunch of ruffians doing evil deeds.
People tend not to question the actions of their governments too
severely as those are the people who are supposed to be smarter then
us and we put them in power. As such we all deserve the governments we
have.
There are several synagogues in the Land Oldenburg today. Their
membership is still only a few hundred but no real record exists of
what may have happened to each and every family during those
horrendous years of the Nazi regime. It can only be hoped that most
emigrated before they were interned, for their own protection, as the
government claimed. Schutzhaft (protective custody) was the word used
to retain people without trial.
Fred
Fred and others,
Thank you for the interesting and informative replies.
At home, I have books written on the history of Alfhausen (my grandmother's
town) and Visbek (my grandfather's town), both written in German of course,
which I do not speak. One of these books, the one on Alfhausen I believe
(this being a bit northwest of Osnabruck), has a chapter on Jewish people in
that area. If this listserv allows, I could try to scan the chapter and
send it as an attachment, if someone here would have the interest and time
in doing a quick read through and telling the rest of us what it says.
Chris
Chicag
Chris
I would love a copy of the visbek book... where did you obtain that one?
Thanks
Annette
Christopher Grote wrote:
Chris,
the mail list only accepts textual data. No attachments like scans
which are binary in nature. Alfhausen is not realy part of the
Oldenburg scene we discuss here. There is also a history of the Jews
of Vechta and other works published by the Heimatbund für das
Oldenburger Land but each pretty much repeat what I already said.
Fred
Hi Annette,
I mis-spoke earlier, my Visbek book is actually about Erlte, a small farming
community 10 miles outside of Visbek. My Erlte relatives gave it to me; if
you're interested I could try to find the publisher, but there's also a
Erlte webpage that I think has the same info.
Its amazing to me that a town of maybe 500 people would have their own
history book, but the town's recorded history goes back to 800AD or so, so
things accumulate!
Chris
Hello Fred,
I first did not want to be part of this discussion, but with your explanation I do now.
I have been to Wittmund and surroudings. I know this was probably no part of Oldenburg.
In Wittmund I have seen the only Jewish cemetry, which has been preserved in the whole country Germany.
It contents a couple of stones, did not look like the whole Jewish community has been buried there.
Nevertheless, these stones are preserved and also a reminder in the center in a street of where the synagoge was located.
I have pictures of these locations, can send these to your private address if you like.
A lot of Jewish people did move out of Germany long before WWII. In former centuries they had mostly fled from Eastern Europe to Germany, because of persecutions, but a lot of these people have moved again already from about 1700 onwards in time again esp. to the Netherlands. I think indeed that about 1850-1900 most emigrations took place from the Jews out of Germany esp. to the Netherlands (and Amerika). And in the years 1930's before WWII others emigrated, because of the bad climate.
Next in the Netherlands the most dark page in history took place and the nazies, who had occupied the Netherlands from 1940-1945. murdered almost all Jews in this country.
Only a few survived.
Reina
Fred wrote:
Has anybody denied that? Let me give a little history of their plight.
During the 18th century there were very few Jews in the Duchy of
Oldenburg. Those who lived there were not considered as citizens of
the communities they lived in. They had to pay for protection and for
the right too settle which limited their presence pretty much to the
city of Oldenburg, Varel and Jever. By 1822 there were 91 so called
Schutzjuden (protected Jews) who paid a fee for the privilege of doing
business in the duchy. These were the heads of household and together
with their families totalled 746 people or less then 1/2% of the
population. In 1827 the duke granted the Jews of his land religious
freedom and provided the function of a chief rabbi to oversea their
schools and religious observances. By 1854 nine synagogues existed in
Oldenburg. (Berne, Cloppenburg, Delmenhorst, Jever, Oldenburg,
Ovelg�nne, Varel, Vechta and Wlideshausen). A thorough revision of the
rights of the Jews was published in 1858 to enable them to be full
partners in the citizenship of the country. These rules lasted until
1927. After WWI the state subsidy for the Jewish community was
increased from 1500 to 4000 Reichsmark. 1932 brought an abrupt change
to all the laws which had been provided for the protection of the
Jews. The National Socialist state blamed the Jews for the WWI defeat
of Germany and enacted all manner of laws to force them out of the
country. Many left including the chief rabbi, Dr. Leo Trepp . Others
were 'resettled' or arrested and died in concentration camps. The Jews
of Oldenburg were mostly the businessmen who sold and traded goods in
the communities they lived in. The slow disappearance of the Jews was
not seen as an extermination attempt by the populace but mostly a
quiet move out of the country. There were no protests as nothing as
nefarious as what was actually happening behind the scenes was
believable - even though all the synagogues had been burned on
Krystallnacht this was just a bunch of ruffians doing evil deeds.
People tend not to question the actions of their governments too
severely as those are the people who are supposed to be smarter then
us and we put them in power. As such we all deserve the governments we
have.
There are several synagogues in the Land Oldenburg today. Their
membership is still only a few hundred but no real record exists of
what may have happened to each and every family during those
horrendous years of the Nazi regime. It can only be hoped that most
emigrated before they were interned, for their own protection, as the
government claimed. Schutzhaft (protective custody) was the word used
to retain people without trial.
Fred
Hi
Wow - awesome record. I do have a few relatives from Erlte. If the website has the info, I'll just go there...
BTW, do you have any KNAGGE, LAMPE, or DEEKE in your line? (We once talked about our TOENJES relations, but nothing connected there)
Annette
Christopher Grote wrote:
Here the website of Erlte: http://www.erlte.de/
Werner
Chris
From your reseach of Visbek. Did you see any Hellmann's. If so do they fit
into your family tree?
Also, did you see any Hellmann's in Erlte book?
Thanks
Steve Hellmann of Edgewood, KY
Hi Chris and Kathy
I don't have Hellmann in my ancestor list yet. And I don't recall seeing any in the Visbek church book, but I tried only to focus on what I was looking for, so I may have missed one. I plan to review the church record in a few months and I can recheck .
Annette
Steve Hellmann wrote:
Thanks, Annette. Both of us would appreciate it.
Kathy