In einer eMail vom 2003-10-27 07:24:32 Westeuropäische Normalzeit schreibt
goertz@FoxValley.net:
re:
of West Prussia for centuries, as far as I can tell. What happened to the
German population after the province was handed to Poland (the Polish
Corridor)
>>
Adalbert Goertz responds >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
They either fled or were driven out. Now they call this ethnic cleansing.
xxxxxxxxxx
Adalbert,
this was was after WW II. The question was about after WW I
Eckhard Hensel
re:
Adalbert,
this was was after WW II. The question was about after WW I
Eckhard Hensel
Adalbert Goertz responds >>>>>>>>>>>>
After WWI most stayed, if they lived in what was the Free State of Danzig.
My own family moved to Danzig but for purely economic reasons. Our
German/Cashubian cousins seem to have been untroubled in the Corridor
- though forced to smuggle their produce across the Free City border.
They were Roman Catholics which might have made a difference.
There was discrimination within Danzig when it came to getting jobs
with the Polish state railways. The children of potential employees
had to be attending Polish rather than German school, for instance.
Cordially,
John (Rohde).
Thew ethnic cleansing after WWI wasn't as drastic as it was
in the rest of the newly created Polish territory after WWII
but it also went on. The German population which didn't
leave, was made into a minority without many rights. They
lost their jobs and life was made pretty miserable for them.
The push was definitely for them to leave. A lot of this is
available in history and partially created the anti-polish
attitude Hitler was able to take advantage of so well.
Fred
4788 Corian Court
Naples, FL 34114
239-775-7838; 609-284-6007 (cell)
FredRump@earthlink.net
"The road to hell was paved with good intentions."
Thank you Mr. Hensel for clearing this up on my behalf. My question is:
What happened to the German population in West Prussia, between 1919-1939,
when the province was handed to Poland after World War One to create a
"Polish corridor" to the sea.
~ Glenn Krock
I haven't heard of any expulsions from the region in that period.
The great majority of the parishes of the Corridor were Roman Catholic
and so, traditionally, often pro-Polish. It was an area where most
would be bi-lingual, Cashubian and German, and the ancestry of most
landowning or leaseholding families was mixed Cashubian, German,
Polish etc..
Cordially,
John (Rohde).
re:
What happened to the German population in West Prussia, between 1919-1939,
when the province was handed to Poland after World War One to create a
"Polish corridor" to the sea.
Adalbert Goertz responds >>>>>>>>>>>>
Most Germans were harassed and encouraged to give up and leave,
discriminated in the work place. Owners were encouraged to sell their
property. My dad didnt sell, but moved across the border to
Kreis Rosenberg. See website below and my mother's memoirs:
Aus dem Leben einer ostpr. Gutsfrau I.
John -
What does the term "Cashubian" mean? I haven't heard hat term before...
Thanks -
T Borns
Missouri, USA
grbr25235@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
A Cashubian or Kashubian is the English version of Polish Kaszub
(pron. Kah-shoob) and refers to the Slavonic people of Pomerelia
(basically between German Pomerania and the Vistula, excluding
Danzig). They are the remnant of the Pomeranian people that once
inhabited the land between the Rivers Oder and Vistula.
They speak their own Slavonic language, closely related to Polish
and Czech though before 1945 it had many German words in it in common
usage.
While the peasant population was concentrated in their own upland
villages or migrated to the cities - particularly Gdynia - the
Cashubian nobility intermarried with incoming German and Polish
families.
The famous Prussian general Yorck von Wartenberg was of cashubian
origin; the original form of his name was, Jarke.
I believe that the best book on the subject is still, "The
Cashubian Civilisation", Fischer, Lorentz &Lehr-Splawinski (Faber &
Faber Ltd., 1935).
Cordially,
John (Rohde).
Adalbert -
Are your mother's memoirs printed in English... My Deutsch is very basic... Also, I ordered a map
of Prussia from a Historical Map website (www.historic-maps.onlineshopverbund.de/) a couple of weeks ago, but have not gotten a response, confirmation or credit card charge... Do you know anything about them???
Thank you in advance-
T Borns
Missouri
Adalbert Goertz wrote:
John -
Thank you a bunch - this is an added bonus to "the search" for ancestors... the historical and cultur-
al information that one picks up in the process... Take care -
T Borns
grbr25235@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
My mother's memoirs are in German, sorry.
>>John -
>>What does the term "Cashubian" mean? I haven't heard hat term
>>before...
>>
>>
>
>A Cashubian or Kashubian is the English version of Polish Kaszub
>(pron. Kah-shoob)
Actually it's from the Polish "Kaszuba" which meant a fur
coat which is the what the west-slavic people used to wear
when the Poles gave them this name. At least that's the
story. In German the area is called Kaschubien or die
Kaschubei.
> They speak their own Slavonic language, closely related to Polish
>and Czech though before 1945 it had many German words in it in common
>usage.
Related as are all Slavic languages as is English, Dutch and
Norwegian as Germanic languages but each is still it's own
language. There is no special relationship to Polish. The
relationship is closer to that of the Sorbs.
Günther Grass made the land famous with his novel THE
TIN DRUMM (Die Blechtrommel).
In all reality the Kashubs were neither German nor Polish
yet lived between these two state systems eager to make
them part of their own. There may still be about 100,000
Kashubs living in Poland today. Many were killed or
expelled as they were nominally German to the invaders. All
they ever really wanted was to be left alone.
Fred
4788 Corian Court
Naples, FL 34114
239-775-7838; 609-284-6007 (cell)
FredRump@earthlink.net
"The road to hell was paved with good intentions."
Moin,
bei der Diskussion �ber Kaschuben und Pomersaria f�llt mir ein pers�nliches
Erlebnis ein:
Mitte der 70er Jahre hatte ich einen ostpreussischen Arbeitskollegen.
Irgendwie hatten wir heraus-gefunden, dass man ihn herrlich mit dem Wort "Du
kaschubischer L�ffelschnitzer" necken konnte. Wir hatten zwar abolut keine
Ahnnung was das bedeutete aber wir wussten, dass unser Addi (Adalbert) sich
sofort "in die Brust werfen" und mit feierlicher Stimme - die Daumen hinter
den Hosentr�gern- behaupten w�rde : Ich bin kein Kaschube! ICH BIN
POMESARIA!!!"
Nachdem ich hier die mails gelesen habe, beginne ich zu verstehen, dass
seine Haltung nicht unbedingt lustig gemeint war.
Gruss
raymont
Actually it's from the Polish "Kaszuba" which meant a fur
coat which is the what the west-slavic people used to wear
when the Poles gave them this name. At least that's the
story. In German the area is called Kaschubien or die
Kaschubei.
It is also held by some to have come from, 'those who live by the
lakes". The term may originally have applied to only a small group
living to the West in Pomerania. Their original name would have been,
Pomorzanie, "those who live by the sea", (i.e. from a Polish point of
view).
> They speak their own Slavonic language, closely related to Polish
>and Czech though before 1945 it had many German words in it in common
>usage.Related as are all Slavic languages as is English, Dutch and
Norwegian as Germanic languages but each is still it's own
language. There is no special relationship to Polish. The
relationship is closer to that of the Sorbs.
I am not sure that Sorbian is any closer to Cashubian than the other
West Slavonic languages. Cashubian shares its anti-penultimate
stress with Czech.
G=FCnther Grass made the land famous with his novel THE
TIN DRUMM (Die Blechtrommel).
In all reality the Kashubs were neither German nor Polish
yet lived between these two state systems eager to make
them part of their own. There may still be about 100,000
Kashubs living in Poland today.
http://www.zk-p.pl/en/#Geoanddemo gives the following:
"Today the number of Kashubians is estimated at about 300,000 plus an
additional 200,000 "half-Kashubians" (mixed married couples) (cf.
Latoszek 1990). Mainly at the end ofthe 19th century Kashubians
migrated in great numbers (about 130,000 in total) usually from south
Kashuby to Germany, Canada, and the United States, where they are
quite numerous, but also to Brazil, Australia and New Zealand (cf.
Popowska-Taborska 1980, 21). After 1945 germanised Slovincians and
Kashubians from the area of Gniewino and Bytów emigrated to Germany."
Many were killed or
expelled as they were nominally German to the invaders.
Lutheran Cashubes shared the fate of the Germans as a rule. The great
majority of the Cashubians being Catholics, once the immediate horrors
of battle had passed, remained in place or exploited the vacancies
left by the Germans' departure.
All they ever really wanted was to be left alone.
The last is true of most people, most of the time. Though the
national sense of the Cashubians was little developed in the past, the
Catholicism of those of Polish Prussia is proverbial even within
Catholic Poland. As an example of their sentiments, during the
Franco-Prussian war, collections were made among them for the benefit
of Frenchmen held as POWs. The leaders among the Cashubian
population, the priests and gentry, seem to have been pro-Polish. The
demotion of all but the landowning nobility to free peasantry and the
loss of their political rights estranged that class from the
Hohenzollern Monarchy. There were Cashubian noble families that were
entirely Germanised and loyal - to the extent of being oblivious of
the Slavonic patrilineal origins; the Jarke = Yorck = English case
comes to mind.
In 1865, Benno von Winckler's, Die Nationalitaeten Pommerellens,
went so far as to claim that the Cashubes were Celts, based on names
found in the - spurious - poems of Ossian! For Winckler the Polish
peasants were indo-germans, while their nobles were Sarmatians; an odd
revival of the old Polish-Lithuania noble myth.
Cordially,
John (Rohde).