Bob Marhenke's posting on the ship "New York" is of great interest to me as well. The sister of my Great Grandfather (Sophie Toennies) stated in a government alien registration form prepared at the time of WW1 that she and some other members of the Toennies family (several were already here)emigrated to America on the ship "New York" and landed in New York City on a certain date in 1873 (which I have forgotten). Some years ago I went to my local Family History Center and looked at the passenger list for arrivals on the "New York" on the date she gave and found nothing. She must have had the date wrong (I can't believe she was wrong about the ship or the point of landing) I tried to expand my search for the passenger list but got frustrated and quit. If anybody responding to Bob's posting could help me in locating the passenger list, it would be much appreciated. The family members would be traveling under the name Toennies and would have numbered 5 - Christian (my G-G Grandfather), Suzanna (my G-G Grandmother) and three of their children, Sophie, Charles and Frederick. Their last known address was Helfern, Hannover and my G-G Grandfather was a royal forester.
Dear Al,
I find an August and Bertha on a ship New York on 27 Sept 1865, both aged 22.
There is a Christian Tonnes on 8 Sept 1873 on the Mosel age 65. Merchent.
There is a Johanne Tonnes same date/ship age 53.
There is a Fredrich Tonnes same date/ship age 9.
I don't find a Sophia with either of these groups.
Could you tell me your Sophia's date of birth? Where did she live in the U.S. Perhaps if I find her on the census might be easier to find her group on shiplist.
Warm Regards,
Barbie-Lew
Dear Al,
I was curious if the document you located was family document or if you located in an archive.
If was archival document, I was wondering how to go about locating that sort of data, and if there might be same type of documents WWII era to be found.
Thanks,
Barbie-Lew
Hi Barbie-Lew!
I had planned to consult the document in order to respond to your questions. If you want I will send you a copy. Around the time of our entry into WWI the government required all aliens to fill out a form identifying them AND THEIR FAMILY CONNECTIONS (presumably to identify security risks). It stirrred up a firestorm of protest from the German American community and the government eventually ordered the forms destroyed. The form destruction was carried out by the states (I don't know why) but not all the states complied. Kansas, where my relative lived, was one of the states that kept the forms and I got Sophie's from some regional record repository. The forms are great for genealogists. They even have photos and fingerprints.
Al Toennies
Hi Barbie-Lew!
Another lister sent me some material from a book about foresters which has the information about Sophie that you wanted.
It is reproduced below:
7303 T�nnies, Johann Georg Christoph, * Marienhagen 7.2.1779, + (Alfeld 1857); Forstaufseher, 2.5.1814 UF,1.10.1831 gF Duingen, (E.: Johann Christoph T., oo Marienhagen 18.1.1776 Engel Maria Br�ggemann),oo Marienhagen 18.11.1808 Johanne Sophie Elisabeth Stille, * Deinsen 23.1.1779, + Duingen 14.9.1847,1. Johanne Marie Christine * Marienhagen 14.3.1805, + Alfeld 1891,oo Alfeld 13.1.1829 August Heinrich Ludolph Dickehut.2. Johann Heinrich Christian, * Duingen 21.4.1808, + St. Louis 26.6.1876 (7304).3. Caroline Sophie, * Duingen 13.12.1810, + ebd. 17.5.1811.4. Hanna Louise, * Duingen 20.8.1812, + ebd. 27.2.1813.5. Johann Georg Christoph, * Duingen 25.5.1814, + ebd. 1.6.1815.6. Johann August Gottfried, * Duingen 30.5.1816, + ebd. 10.8.1818.7304 T�njes, Johann Heinrich Christian, * 21.4.1808, + St. Louis, Mo USA 25.6.1876; 17.3.1834 Feldj�ger,12.9.1840 UF in Deitlevsen, Kgl. UF 12.9.1840 in Deitlevsen, Welsede, bis 1847 gF Duingen, 1.1.1852Helfern/Dissen, 1.10.1864 F�rster ebd., (Photo), (E.: 7303);oo Duingen 9.2.1843 Susanne Amalie Horenkohl, * Duingen 27.3.1821, + Eudora, KS, USA 12.3.1878, (E.:Conrad Heinrich H., T�pfermeister, * Duingen 29.11.1784, + ebd. 1.8.1824 oo 5.9.1811 Sophie EleonoreElisabeth Albrecht,(oo II. Vorschwele), (Photo); 10 Kinder,1. Georg Conrad Christian August, * Welsede 13.1.1844.2. Wilhelm Heinrich Conrad Ludwig, * (Helfern/Dissen) 28.7.1845, + St. Louis Mo USA;13.6.1917; 1860 nach USA ausgewandert.oo St. Louis 28.11.1872 Johanna Wilhelmine Charlotte Fricke, * Dissen 9.11.1848, + St. Louis 8.10.1908.3. Georg Gottfried Christian, * 13.12.1847, + 10.7.1902; Pastor,oo ... Christina Nagel, * 31.10.1859, + 23.2.1913.4. Conrad Moritz Friedrich, * 18.11.1849, + Eudora 1883.oo Wellsville KS USA 21.3.1887 Caroline Hennies, * 29.5.1857.5. Christian Friedrich Wilhelm, * 4.9.1851, + Welsede 5.3.1853.6. Sophia Elisabeth Lisette, * Helfern 4.7.1854, + Eudora KS USA 23.4.1930,oo Eudora 2.4.1877 Ernst Wilhelm Gerstenberger, * Hennersdorf 25.7.1850, + Eudora 18.1.1929, 10Kinder.7. Elise, * Helfern 14.11.1856, + 19.11.1856.8. Karl, * 27.5.1858.9. Gustav, * 27.5.1858, + 29.7.1858.10. Friedrich, * 9.5.1861, + 19.4.1897,oo ... Wilhelmine Stegelmeyer.NHStA Hann. 88 A 4350; 76a 776, 811. �� � � � �
Sophie is Sophia Elizabethe Lisette born in Helfern, Hannover on 4.7.1854 and died in Eudora, Kansas on 23.4.1930. This was her only address in the U.S. of which I am aware - she and her mother went to live with their brother George, who was an Evangelical minister on the Kansas frontier, after the death of her father and married a farmer named Gerstenberger in that location.
Dear Al,
Likely you have noted the following from the Aida.
Bestellnummer: Rep 335 Nr. 792
Laufzeit, von: Laufzeit, bis:
Titel:
1. Tönnies, Wilhelm Heinrich Conrad Ludwig - Name
2. 28.07.1845, Helfern Pf Dissen A Ibg ** - Birthdate and residence
3. ? -
4. Tönnies, männl., Förster, Helfern - *** interesting
5. keine
6. ? - I think religious affiliation not known
7. Nordamerika - Destination
8. 06.06.1860 -
9. ?
10. Verwandte wohnen in Amerika - Has relatives in America?
Bestellnummer: Rep 350 Ibg Nr. 5436
Laufzeit, von: Laufzeit, bis:
Titel: 1. Tönnies, Wilhelm Heinrich Conrad Ludwig, Helfern
2. über 14 Jahre
3. ?
4. ?
5. keine
6. ?
7. St. Louis
8. 1860
9. ?
10. ?
Forgive my ignorance, Barbie-Lew, but I'm not sure what you are quoting from. What is the Aida and what do the entries mean?
Al
Dear Al,
I believe Auswanderer refers to Emmigration or permission to emmigrate. The Neidersachsen archives offers an online searchable and downloadable database.
Neidersachsen Archives Online Research
Select Auswanderer suche + input name or place.
Below are basically the qestions asked that the data refers to.
1. Name & Residence
2. Age/Birthdate & Birth place if known to vary from residence noted
3. Occupation
4. *Companions or Relatives
5. *Companions or Relatives
6. Religious Affiliation
7. Destination
8. Approximate Departure
9. Funds
10. Reason For Leaving
* Both 4 & 5 answer something to do with companions and/or relatives.
Somewhere in my unorganized office and piles of papers I do have list of questions that answers given pertain.
There are actually several Toennies listed in the database.
Another that might be of interest is:
126 Neu Nr. 130
Laufzeit, von: Laufzeit, bis:
Titel:
1. Besselmann, Heinrich, Bettmar
2. 13.01.1808
3. Brinksitzer und Schneider
5. Besselmann, Ilsedore Sophie, geb. Tönnies; ******
Besselmann, Johanne Marie Elisabeth;
6. lutherisch
7. St. Louis
8. 01.10.1858
9. 1000 Taler
Warm Regards,
Barbie-Lew