Hello Teresa,
there is not a Steinkamp but some Stein and two Lonnemann:
- Lonnemann Johann Rudolph, born about 1810 in Gersten, parish St.Benedictus Lengerich(Lingen county)
no married Heuerlingssohn(son of a Heuermann), emigrated 1840
- Lonnemann Anna Maria, born 22.Sep.1844 in Bregenbeke, parish Lengerich, emigrated 1866,
parents: Heuermann Johann Berard Lonnemann and Anna Christina Kuhl
That's all,
Werner
Thanks for your help, Werner!
Teresa
This is a very interesting discussion...low and high German. My mother often
spoke of her family's dislike for one side of the family and said that they
spoke low German and the other side high German. I don't think she knew what
was meant but, took it to mean ...demeaning in nature.
My real question is this...my gggrandmother from Hanover...in her obit , it
stated that she was from Leadwich Dres, Hanover ...she died in Waterloo, IL.
This might be the area (Lengerich) that they wrote...I am just grasping at
straws since I have been told there is no such place.
Would this be the area of Hanover…crossing my fingers…that she could
have been from Lengerich ???
The surnames involved were Griemel from Grossen Linden , Hessen, Germany and
Dedeke , Schmidt , Spellmeyer\Spellmeier from Hanover.
The church that they belonged to all spoke German in the 1850\1900 time
frame in Waterloo, IL. They didn't use English in their services until
about 1910. She was Margaret Schroeder and her husband was Fredrich Dedeke
both born in Hanover.
Just hoping that I can locate the area of their birth.
Thanks
Pat
Hello Patricia,
Is there any chance that the FRIEDERICH CHRISTIAN DEDEKE born in
1829 in Frille, Westfalen, Prussia could be your ancestor? It is on the LDS
website. Do you have birth and marriage dates for your people?
Barbara
Fredrich Dedeke states on obit and church records that he was from Hanover,
Germany. I don't know much else about them before the Waterloo, IL area.
I will check the LDS again.
Thanks
Pat
Hi Pat,
Frille is very near to the city of Petershagen. I do think that would
have been in the kingdom of Hannover. The city of Hannover is not that far
away. The LDS has church records for Frille in the 1800's. I must tell you
that even tombstones can be wrong on dates. This was so for my
great-grandmother born in Germany. Or perhaps whoever read the original
record could have misread the date of birth. I don't want to mislead you,
but I think I'd take a look at the film. Were your grandparents married when
they came to the U.S.?
Good luck!
Barbara
Hello again,
Here's more to think about. There is a German website that has a
search directory for emigrants from Hannover, Osnabruck, and Wolfbuttel.
There are records of the necessary permission to emigrate. I just did a
search and there are 4 Dedecke listed, 3 of which are from Burgwedel which
is right in the larger Hannover (city) area. One is named Jürgen Heinrich
Friedrich Dedeke. There is also a Catharine Marie Dorothee Dedeke and
another Jürgen Heinrich Dedeke from the Burgwedel as well. Could be parents
and son? And the 4th is from Lüneburg (also called Jürgen Heinrich!) This
is the website :
http://app.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/findbuch/
There are 3 choices. The Hannover one is usually shown so leave it there
and click on Abschicken. On the next page, go to Index which is in the
middle line. Then fill in Dedeke in the box and choose Nach Personen and
click on Suche Starten. It will bring up the 4 Dedeke people. Then if you
click on the number at the end of the line (like 1402), that will tell you
the name of the town that they are coming from. That is far as I know. I
think you can order the emigration records with those numbers (with a fee).
The LDS has some records from Burgwedel. I was never successful searching
for some of my ancestors so I never ordered records from Hannover. I don't
really read German. Maybe, you can figure it out!
Where did Frederich and Margaret marry? Here or in Germany?
Barbara
Barbara,
I tried the Niedersachsen State Archives site that you suggested to
Patricia, however, I had difficulty reading the German. I'm searching for an
emigration listing for Henry Stage (b 1830) who emigrated in 1851 with his
mother and sister.
I think this site is a good suggestion, but can I assume if my ancestor
is not on the list that he emigrated elsewhere?
Susan
Hello Susan,
I tried all 3 places (Hannover, Osnabruck, and Wolfbuttel and I did
not find the name of Henry Stage either. However, by doing a search on the
LDS website for only the last name of Stage, I found that there are many
ways to spell Stage. So I did another search using only the first 3
letters (STA), I came upon many persons with the name of Stagge in the
archives of Osnabruck. In fact there are 4 persons with the name of
Heinrich in it. It is possible that is the people or person you may be
looking for. The people had to get permission to travel (like a passport)
and Osnabruck was one of the places to apply for that. Now, the problem
is, if you click on the number at the right, it leads to a number with a
town listed with it. Unfortunately, the Osnabruck site only gives the first
3 letters of the town (or none at all). Then, if you click on the
Gliederung, that brings you to the list of towns. I would conclude that the
3 Heinrich Stagge names (#6239, 6340, 6241) would belong to Kirchspiel
Lengerich, whatever that means, But there is the Frer in the line which
would indicate Freren. There are two Lengerichs. One is closer to Freren
and the other is farther north. I really don't know which is right.
When I searched for my Gugelmeyers I found nothing in the index and
I remember that I did write to them to ask if there indeed was no one by
that name. If you click on Vorwort, it has a long narrative in German which
a online translator tells you this:
In English:
To the important socialhistorical phenomena 19. Century belongs the
emigration movement from German territories, predominantly directed toward
North America. The following listing seizes the emigrations between 1825 and
1870 from the Landdrosteibezirk at that time Osnabrueck, thus the today's
districts Osnabrueck, Ems country and county Bentheim as well as the city
Osnabrueck, so far it? usually by distribution of a consent - became on
record. How many persons emigrated beyond that without official permission,
is unknown. Estimations go by that their number corresponds approximately to
those of the legal emigrants. Under emigration here the?klassische does not
only become? Case of the departure abroad overseas understood, but each
separating from the hannoverschen and/or starting from 1866 Prussian subject
federation, even if another European or even German state were the goal.
Excluding documents of public records Osnabrueck were evaluated, in
individual such the middle (Landdrostei) and lower national management level
(offices, Vogteien) as well as city archives cared for by public records
(among other things Osnabrueck, Bram, Lingen, new house, Quakenbrueck). The
arrangement (classification) depends on the administrative organization of
the Landdrosteibezirks Osnabrueck in the second half 19. Century and cover
the individual offices, which are divided after Kirchspielen for their part
beside the four independent cities Lingen, Melle, Osnabrueck and
Quakenbrueck. Within the Kirchspiele the emigrants are alphabetically
listed. Those the documents regarding the individual emigrant inferred data
were arranged with the help of ten positions comprehensive patterns: (1)
name and residence. (2) date of birth or age and of the residence deviating
place of birth. (3) occupation. (4) name of parents. (5) Mitauswandernde
relative with indication of the distorting shank relationship such as Mrs.,
brother, daughter, son etc.. (6) denomination. (7) an emigration goal. (8)
emigration time; mentioned the exact date, if necessary also only the year,
is the passport distribution, consent distribution or the departure from the
residence. (9) fortune. (10) remarks; here an explanation in terms of
catchwords of the emigration reasons takes place, for example via data
concerning the family or economic situation. The Osnabruecker archivist
Herbert Budde took over the examination and evaluation of the documents; it
was final 1982. The data input took place in the context of several
work-providing measures. The principal purpose of the emigrants from the
Osnabruecker area the USA formed, with far distance most frequently as
destinations were called for Baltimore, Cincinnati, New York and pc. Louis.
Against it Milwaukee go the city remarkably rarely like also the Federal
State Wisconsin at all into action, which actually a special emphasis of the
German new settlement represented. Osnabruecker emigrated themselves also to
Argentina, Australia and Brazil, isolated intended one even, to Chile to
embark Cuba and Netherlands east India. Under the European countries clearly
the Netherlands dominate, whereby it open-remains whether for example
frequently mentioned Amsterdam already formed terminator point of the
emigration or only one stopover before the embarkation to overseas. The
Beschwernisse and dangers of the overseas emigration in 19. Century? at
first on sail later on steam ships? are sufficiently well-known. With hope
for?besseres getting along, always recurring in the documents? took on above
all member of the socially underprivileged layers this venture. With the
Osnabruecker emigrants most frequently job titles meet as?Magd?, or
more?Tageloehner?, which probably permits the conclusion that the majority
of the emigrants came of to the layer dependently in the agriculture of the
persons employed. The craftsmen and the workers were likewise strongly
represented. The Vollstaendigk
Therefore, if your ancestor's name is not there, it means they did not
obtain permission to emigrate, they got it somewhere else, or they got out
of Germany illegally. I do not see on the website how to order these
records. I think there is a fee of some sort. Probably you should write an
email and ask them to help verify what is available. I found an email
address for the Osnabruck archives:
poststelle@staatsarchiv-os.niedersachsen.de
The website for all the archives in Niedersachsen is this:
http://www.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/home/
The people at the Osnabruck Archives did answer my email when I wrote
them. They said that there indeed were no emigrants with the Gugelmeyer
name. Maybe you will have better luck.
Barbara Stewart
Please at least attempt to cut some of the previous mail out of your
responses. Remember, everything you send winds up in an archive and
takes up space. Future searches will also repeat the finds again and
again for the same information. Make it a little easier for the folks
who research after you.
As to the on-line Findbuch at the Lowersaxon Archive - one can order
the relevant found source documents in a variety of ways from the
archive. I prefer having it filmed. Cost then comes to only .15 Eur
per page plus a small setup charge.
The data itself in the Auswanderquellen for Osnabrück is
questionable. I found numerous people who lived their entire lives in
the area yet are found in this resource as if they had some
connection to emigration. I have a feeling the sources are more
general in nature and are not only connected to emigration permits
etc.
Fred
4788 Corian Court
Naples, FL 34114
239-775-7838; 239-269-4781 (cell)
FredRump@earthlink.net
Barbara, Hans Peter Albers & Werner!
My thanks to you all for responding to my questions on Fredrich and Margaret
Schroeder Dedeke of Hanover, Germany. I have been away for a few days and
just returned home...much to my surprise ...there was a good deal of info on
this subject.
I will read all the many e mails and get back to you.
Thanks again!
Pat
Liebe Liste,
anbei nochmal die Originalanfrage. Es geht um:
Margarethe Schr�der, * 10.07.1835, + 26.10.1910, und ihren Ehemann
Friedrich Dedeke, + 14.05.1825, + 09.04.1900 Waterloo/Illinois.
Weiteres hatte als Quelle ergeben, dass nichts anderes als die Geburtsorts-, bzw.
Herkunftsangabe in einer Todesanzeige in der Zeitung als Quelle zur Verf�gung
stand. Ich selbst habe rund 10.000.000 Telefoneintr�ge von 1995 mit "Leadwich
Dres" verglichen, nicht eine �bereinstimmung, mit "Landwehr" verglichen, kommt
hierbei auf 18.000 Treffer, inclusive "Landwehr deich" etc... 18.000 Treffer kann
keiner Eintrag f�r Eintrag vergleichen. Negativ war auch die Ortsangabe
"Ludewig". "Dres" als Familienname gab es 75. Soweit der Stand. Vielleicht hat
jemand in Verbindung mit den angegebenen Namen eine Verbindung.
(�bersetzungen aus dieser E-mail auf Nachfrage an mich m�glich.)
Patricia Knight schrieb:
Have you had a look at the church records in Waterloo? I have found, at least in the Lutheran Churches in that area, they had a Family Register of the first of the family to come into the congregation. these have been most helpful. they included where they came from and birth information.
Yvonne
Thank you, Yvonne! I have personally visited this church on 3 different
occasions but, found nothing.
Everything from this period is written in German and they have someone who
is kind enough to translate.
I have found where Fredrich bought land in Monroe County, Illinois and am
going to write for the paperwork on this purchase or sale of land.
Pat
and we have checked the monroe cty genweb, right?
Pat,
It would be helpful if you could obtain a photocopy of anything regarding the death from the church records and scan it to the list to see if we could read the German script. Perhaps we could decipher something else besides "Leadwich Dres".
Or did you say that came from a newspaper??
Couple of thoughts I had--
1) "Dres" is an abbreviation for "Dresden"--so "Leadwich" (whatever that is), [Amt or Kreis] Dresden?
2) is there a river in Germany called "Drees" or something similar? So that perhaps it is "Leadwich" (the town name) [on the river] Dres--such as Frankfurt/Main or Frankfurt/Oder?
--Gary
Patricia Knight wrote:
Pat (and everyone else),
What if the obituary writer was working from some personal paper in the family, written perhaps in German script--perhaps an old passport, or permit to emigrate; or perhaps a person in the family was reading it to the person who was writing the obituary, and the script said "Ludwigs-Dorf"? In script, the "f" can look like an "s", vowels can be transposed . . .
Just another thought . . .
--Gary
Patricia Knight wrote: