Question on Saxony

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1

I am working on a family history of the Goldammer and Michael families that
immigrated to Jefferson City, Missouri. I am getting some good information
here but am getting to the point (if I want to get further back) of needing
information from Germany. The towns and cities that are involved here are:
Colditz, Hermsdorf, Gerringswald, Lasdau, Rochetz, Roeda, Mittwelda, and
Newwalzig. These are all in Saxony. I have looked them up on a map and can
see that they are all located between Dresden and Leipzig (at least the ones
I can find) and are fairly close together.

I want to know if there is any organization that I can contact in this area
that could help. I was wondering if anyone knew the geography and could
tell me if there is some governmental unit that would encompass all of
these? I don't know anything about the political structure in Germany. Do
they have something like counties in the US? Are some of these names larger
areas than towns of villages? Is there some sort of genealogical society in
this area? I know the church were my great, great grandparents were married
was the Lutheran Church in Hermsdorf near Gerringswald. Do I need to
contact individual churches? If so, how do I get addresses? My other
problem is I don't know the language. If I actually visited the area, where
would I find information? Would I need to go to a bigger city to get the
information or is it at the local level?

I am just starting to think about how to get information from Germany so
anything anyone knows would help. Thanks.

2

Hi Deborah,
I was very new to this earlier this year, but have been very successful due
to some excellent and very generous people in this group - Christina in
particular! They will help where they can with documents etc.
However, if you plan to visit the areas involved, try to get a translator to
do the talking - I took a German friend with me, and she was told by two
separate organizations that because we all took the time to turn up in
person, they were more willing to help than if they had received just an
email or a letter.
So, I wish you luck! Best wishes from York, England.

3

Hello Deborah,

although I?m not a specialist for saxony by chance (accidentally) I have
some Goldammer-dates from the area round Geringswalde:

Georg Goldammer citizen in Geringswalde
* Arras 18.March.1627 died Geringswalde 29. December 1704

son of
Andreas Goldammer born Arras baptised Geringswalde 25.December 1594
died Arras 10. May 1639

Clemen Goldammer from Arras - born before the start of the churchbook (1576)
died Schweikershain past 1620

This Goldammer are very early and m u s t n o t be your ancestors - but
it showes to you how far you eventually could come with your research.

For this area the AMF would be the genealogical association (society)
http://www.genealogienetz.de/vereine/AMF/AMF.html - but this is eastern
Germany and you cannot be sure that everybody is able to speak english (
they had to learn russian)

If you are willing to tell me your dates - I could try to look what to
find - without any guaranty, that I find something.

But at the moment we and the rest of the world have Advent season, with
traditionaly only few time for ancestry-research - it may take long (last a
while) to get a answer.

Greetings from Bavaria
Christine

P.S. I can`t find a Newwalzig - what about Neuwallwitz near Geringswalde ??
Hermsdorf excist a lot - but one near Mittweida - not Mittwelda ??
Lasdau - I can?t find aswell - what about Lastau near Coldiz ??
(Spoken in the saxony speach softer then normal German may sound like
Lasdau )
For Rochetz I only could imagine Rochlitz ?? (Mittweida area)
Roeda - no idea - but there are some Roda in Sachsen (saxony)
First thing should be to find out the correct spelling of the
towns/villages.

Some of this towns have homepages:

http://www.mittweida.de/hauptordner1/nav_f.htm
http://www.geringswalde.de/

http://www.rochlitz.de/

But keep in mind not everybody is able or willing to speak english - I think
Joy is right to recommend a translator.

4

Hello again,

do you know the meaning of Goldammer ?
It is a bird, I think a finch - yellowhammer -
ornitological called: Emberiza citrinella

Best wishes
Christine

5

Christine - thank you very much for this information. I will begin to
follow up on some of the leads you have given me. I think you are right
about the spelling of the various towns. I see the town of Arras is also in
this same vicinity. You said if I sent you some dates you would take a look
at them. Well, I have a lengthy description below of the people I am trying
to trace. It is probably more than you want to know but I didn't know what
to include and what to leave out.

My great, great grandparents were Henrich August Goldammer - born May 18,
1845 (maybe Colditz), died September 14, 1892 (Jefferson City, Missouri),
went by August and Ernestine Emilie Herfuth (maybe Hernsdorf, Gerringswald)
- born May 1, 1853, died February 27, 1926 (Jefferson City, Missouri), went
by Ernestine.
Married at Church at Hernsdorf - certificate has May 15, 1881. Date is
confusing since at that time they had a 6 year old son. They emigrated from
Hamburg on the ship Silesia and arrived in New York on June 6, 1881. With
them was Richard Bruno Goldammer born January 25, 1875 their son.
Ernestine's parents were John David Herfurth and Hanna Rosina Rasser.
August's father's name is Gottlieb Goldammer. I can't read the name of his
mother on the certificate. I have a many copied document and it is
difficult to read.

Immigrating with them on the same ship and coming to Jefferson City were:
Herman Goldammer - born April 11, 1849, died July 10, 1912 (Lohman,
Missouri) who I think was August's brother and his wife Anna Mathilda
Foerschner, born November 2, 1852, died April 10, 1926 (Lohman, Missouri).
With them were four children who were born in Germany: Richard born October
1, 1876, Paul born November 26, 1880 and twin girls Ida and Selma born in
1880 or 1881 (they are listed as infants).

There is also I believe another brother Ehrgott Goldammer - born August 7,
1850 (Lasdau/Lastau), died January 24, 1918 (Jefferson City, Missouri) and
his wife Ernestine Pauline Hentschel - born September 24, 1852
(Rochetz/Rochlitz), died October 28, 1918 (Jefferson City, Missouri). They
brought three children: Richard born April 17, 1878, Bruno born October 24,
1879, and Paul B. born November 26, 1880. They emigrated from Bremen on the
ship Elba and arrived in New York on August 12, 1882.

There is also I believe another brother Fredrick William Goldammer - born
August 8, 1859, died June 1, 1945 (Jefferson City, Missouri). He emigrated
with his wife Selma Hulda Hahn - born November 9, 1865, died June 13, 1935
(Jefferson City, Missouri) on the ship Rhaetia from Havre to New York
arriving November 15, 1887. They didn't have children with them.

I say I believe these are brothers but I can't find definite proof. This is
one of the things I would like to confirm. One elderly relative thinks that
Fredrick William was a half brother. They must be related in some way as
they all came to Jefferson City at about the same time.

The other branch of the family I am trying to research is the Michaels.
Karl Gottlieb Michael - born October 16, 1827, died December 31, 1906
(Jefferson City, Missouri) and his wife Johanna Ernestine Helm - born
December 16, 1832,died December 29, 1893 (Jefferson City, Missouri) were
also my great, great grandparents. They emmigrated in 1882 from Saxony with
their children: Gustav Adolph Michael born May 14, 1866 and his twin brother
Robert O. Michael born same date and Frank Herman Michael born February 22,
1869 (my great grandfather) and four daughters Bertha, Auguste, Emma (maybe
1862) and Anna (maybe 1865). I don't have birthdates on the girls. I have
something that says Gustav was born in Newwalzig (maybe Neuwalwitz) uber
Mittweida, Germany.

Frank Michael's wife (my great grandmother) was Selma Maria Boehme - born
December 16, 1868 in Roeda, Kingdom of Saxony immigrating to America at age
16 with her family on the ship Strassburg which arrived in Baltimore on May
26, 1883 from Bremen. Her father was John Fuerthdegut Boehme born March 13,
1838 and her mother was Johanna Wilhelmina Guenther, born May 9, 1837. The
other children also immigrated with them: Herman Gustav born 1864, Marie
born July 1867, Wilhelmia A. born January 2, 1871, Anna born March 16, 1872,
Martha born October 13, 1877, and Fredric Paul born September 1879.

I am thinking all these people knew each other over in Saxony somehow.

Again thanks for your help. I understand it may be awhile before you can
look at this. We are the same way here with Christmas coming on fast. I am
just curious but what sort of customs do you celebrate in Bavaria for the
Advent season?

Thanks

6

Thank you for the advice.

7

Hello Deborah,

sorry, if you and other misunderstood me - when I wrote:

If you are willing to tell me your dates - I could try to look what to
find - without any guaranty, that I find something.

I never thought to visit any archiv, church or institute in Saxony. I can
help to find out, where to search, by asking our German genealogical
Mailinglists, and sometimes you find someone who already researched your
ancestors.

You are not in the lucky position as Irma was, who asked herself the
Mecklenburg and Pommern-List. This two lists are bilingual - the
Sachsen-List is not. Therefore I will translate your question and ask line
by line.

Goldammer exist some lines round about that area - maybe they all are
related - but till now, nobody found out. This can say churchbooks started
to late for this family.

As I found out meanwhile Goldammer seams to be well researched - we have to
find your entry to this lists with houses, lines, trees and branches of
Goldammer. Years ago there must have been a Goldammer family-alliance
(family-organization, f-syndicate, f-union or what ever - I am not sure that
I can translate correct the German word 'Familienverband')

I saw in this list several "Gottlieb" "Gottlob" "Traugott" "Gottfried" - but
sorry no "Ehrgott".

Do you know the profession of your ancestors ? Different lines of Goldammer
seam to have different professions. Carpenter, butcher, weaver for linen,
farmer

Let us wait, what the Sachsen-List can tell.

My great, great grandparents were Henrich August Goldammer - born May 18,
1845 (maybe Colditz), died September 14, 1892 (Jefferson City, Missouri),
went by August and Ernestine Emilie Herfuth (maybe Hernsdorf, Gerringswald)
- born May 1, 1853, died February 27, 1926 (Jefferson City, Missouri), went
by Ernestine.

It could be - only a suggestion, they were already married by the civil
registry office, but before leaving they married in the church ???

Are you able to scan the documents and mail them to me directly, list does
not allow a attachment?

Did you try LDS, Familysearch, IGI? They could be helpfull - but for
Goldammer I don`t know - may be a little bit confusing. To many entries for
the same person, with different informations - who is able to tell which is
right and which is wrong?

Do you already know when you want to visit Saxony ?

So far for the moment
Christine

8

Christine,
  My ggrandparents came from Germany, somewhere around Baden, Bavaria, Bayern or Biehn are all listed on the Census'. My ggrandfather came over about 1853 with ??? His name was George Sauer. My ggrandmother was Barbara Newberger, & her brother Gustav came together on the Zurich from LeHavre. They arrived Castle Garden July 2, 1857. She was about 20 & her brother was 24. I don't know if they knew each other over there or not. On the
  1880 & 1890 Indiana census, they say they were born in Bayern. My father always said they were from Bavaria. The only thing I am positive about their lives in Germany is that they were Catholic.
  How do I find out the info I need & where do I go to get it. I feel like I have hit a brick wall. Can you help me or find me someone who can?
  Jean Morris

Hello Deborah,

sorry, if you and other misunderstood me - when I wrote:

If you are willing to tell me your dates - I could try to look what to
find - without any guaranty, that I find something.

I never thought to visit any archiv, church or institute in Saxony. I can
help to find out, where to search, by asking our German genealogical
Mailinglists, and sometimes you find someone who already researched your
ancestors.

You are not in the lucky position as Irma was, who asked herself the
Mecklenburg and Pommern-List. This two lists are bilingual - the
Sachsen-List is not. Therefore I will translate your question and ask line
by line.

Goldammer exist some lines round about that area - maybe they all are
related - but till now, nobody found out. This can say churchbooks started
to late for this family.

As I found out meanwhile Goldammer seams to be well researched - we have to
find your entry to this lists with houses, lines, trees and branches of
Goldammer. Years ago there must have been a Goldammer family-alliance
(family-organization, f-syndicate, f-union or what ever - I am not sure that
I can translate correct the German word 'Familienverband')

I saw in this list several "Gottlieb" "Gottlob" "Traugott" "Gottfried" - but
sorry no "Ehrgott".

Do you know the profession of your ancestors ? Different lines of Goldammer
seam to have different professions. Carpenter, butcher, weaver for linen,
farmer

Let us wait, what the Sachsen-List can tell.

My great, great grandparents were Henrich August Goldammer - born May 18,
1845 (maybe Colditz), died September 14, 1892 (Jefferson City, Missouri),
went by August and Ernestine Emilie Herfuth (maybe Hernsdorf, Gerringswald)
- born May 1, 1853, died February 27, 1926 (Jefferson City, Missouri), went
by Ernestine.

It could be - only a suggestion, they were already married by the civil
registry office, but before leaving they married in the church ???

Are you able to scan the documents and mail them to me directly, list does
not allow a attachment?

Did you try LDS, Familysearch, IGI? They could be helpfull - but for
Goldammer I don`t know - may be a little bit confusing. To many entries for
the same person, with different informations - who is able to tell which is
right and which is wrong?

Do you already know when you want to visit Saxony ?

So far for the moment
Christine

9

Sorry Jean,

I think you have to do a little bit more. Do you have the marriage
certificate ? Do you have the death certificate ? Immigration ?
Naturilization papers ? All this papers should tell something - hopefully
the place of birth. Bavaria (english translation of Bayern) or Baden or ??
is really not enough to start a research. Biehn is nothing I would know.

Neuberger (the german way of writing Newberger) in the german phonebook have
1287 entries - spread all over Germany - absolutly to much for any
suggestion.

Sauer - over 17.000 in the German phonebook.
I myself have Sauer (Saur) ancestors - but from Rhineland.

I don`t see any chance to help, as I canot see where to begin.

Greetings from Bavaria (Bayern)
Christine

-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----

10

Instead of Biehn, it is Biern. So, where do I go from here. Any suggestions will be helpful.

Christine Mathis-Huber <c.mathis-huber@nexgo.de> wrote:
Sorry Jean,

I think you have to do a little bit more. Do you have the marriage
certificate ? Do you have the death certificate ? Immigration ?
Naturilization papers ? All this papers should tell something - hopefully
the place of birth. Bavaria (english translation of Bayern) or Baden or ??
is really not enough to start a research. Biehn is nothing I would know.

Neuberger (the german way of writing Newberger) in the german phonebook have
1287 entries - spread all over Germany - absolutly to much for any
suggestion.

Sauer - over 17.000 in the German phonebook.
I myself have Sauer (Saur) ancestors - but from Rhineland.

I don`t see any chance to help, as I canot see where to begin.

Greetings from Bavaria (Bayern)
Christine

-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----

11

I think at the moment you go nowhere - but collect every existing paper in
USA.

Marriage Certificate should show the parents !!
Death certificate can tell a age and a place of birth !!
Immigration Papers often tell the place of birth !!
Naturalization Papers also can tell a lot.
Are there any other Sauer round your Georg Sauer ?
Do you know where they came from ?
Are there anywhere godparents with the name Sauer ?

All these papers you have to find in USA - o n l y when you have all this
informations you may start research in Germany.

Maybe someone else can tell you how to search in USA to provide a basis for
the German research.

"Biern" is either so a small "nest" that I would have to know the next
larger village - or it is simply not written correct.

Y o u may look in
Bern - Switzerland
Bieren - north of Bielefeld in Nordrhein-Westfalen
Biron - Wisconsin
Biere - Sachsen-Anhalt
Bierne - Nord-Pas-de Calais France
Bierne - Mayenne, Pays de la Loire France
Biera - Kongo

or where ever you want - for m e it is not a information to work with.

Did you search Ellis Island ? IGI ? In Igi you can find nearly 600 Georg
Sauer from Bayern, from Baden, from Hessen, from Rhineland, from Preussen -
not counted the Johann Georg or other combinations of the name.

Pick out whom you want to have - or research the reallity with correct
informations, which have to be found in USA.

Sorry
Christine

-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----