"Jim" <jimcats@earthlink.net> schrieb:

It's my opinion that the Russians would have been > much better off if the Germans would have
defeated and controlled Russia for the last 60
years Jim


Sorry Jim,

although I haven`t been following the whole dis-cussion, I would like to say as a acomment three words:
                   no! no! no !

There would be probably nowadays no Russians any-more, if those Germans of 1933 to 45 would have come into a position of "controlling" Russia. The plans they had were using them as working slaves. We know how this program worked, where they prac-tised it. So thank you very much for all sympathies with the German, Germany and the Germans, but we nowadays think, we earn this sympathies again only because of having changed opinions and political practices to a non-dominating position against our neighbours and all the other people in the world. It would be kind, if nobody would try to throw us back into the corner we are proud on having suc-cessfully struggled out of it. It leads by the way to the genealogical effect, that family histories of the last 60 years did not or seldom have to use the sign with two crossed swords, by which family tradition so often is and was cut off. And with this remark, I would like to return to genealogies.

With the hope for continuity for men and tradition in this sense

Greetings and the best for 2006 Hans Peter Albers

Hans Peter my friend, with all due respect, many of us are worn to the point of exhaustion with many of the accepted "norms" that we see being lapped upon us today with increasing stringency, that I might say often seem even more odious than those of our often warlike forebears. Though you speak well of tolerance and the new Germany, and I do understand where you are coming from in what you say, sometimes I think we may have perhaps bargained for too much 'tolerance' now in our respective countries. Or is that simply the archaic thinking of so many of our forbears?

In the name of tolerance and good will, should I remain silent and well-behaved forever while the whole southwest of this country - and even beyond now - is being inundated and overrun by an underclass of Mexican refugees by the millions, knowing that our Federal government and elected officials could care less about it from one year to the next? Mainly because their most powerful constituencies - the wealthy and corporate class - profit from it in the short term, while we as a nation suffer from to it in the longer one. Is this an intelligent and acceptable platform? And that's with every poll taken in the last 20 years showing an overwhelming majority of Americans wanting it stopped! Thanks to this state of affairs, my tax burden gets lifted ever higher just to pay for all this illegal activity, with little to no say from me. The price also of "keeping the peace" and "good will towards men". I don't have to remind you of the foreign Turkish element in your own country that has become increasingly unmanageable, the same one your forebears would be rolling over in their graves from in disbelief. Did all of our collective ancestors need nannies and gardeners by the millions? And we all have seen what the Muslims - also now in the millions and growing - are agitating for next door in France in recent days. This is also the repercussion and fallout of not facing the music. But should it be tolerated, or perhaps re-questioned?

One thing we can all agree on is that there is an admittedly thin line between genealogy, history and politics, and no doubt some will object to the blurring of the lines in these kinds of discussions. I for one do not, as I enjoy and learn form these kinds of dialogues, and do not offend easily in from those who view things different than me. But I would be a fool if I didn't recognize the unique position Germans are in with the fallout from the war we are discussing, with the tragic dimensions that were at your actual doorsteps and that the rest of us now speak of from afar. That is understood. But beyond the obvious sensitivities, it still doesn't change the "facts" as they may be constituted. Perhaps it is a reaction against all the "politically-correct" conditioning that seems spread upon us at every turn. My belief is that most of these very ancestors we are attempting to chronicle and bring to life would not have accepted much of this, for better or worse! Perhaps it's simply a matter of whether these subjects ought to be brought up at all. Or if they are, how do we avoid offending some with these kinds of topics and our opinions, unless of course we just stick to "LOOKING FOR MY SCHMIDT - SCHULZ - SCHNITLER - XXX [= fill in your own =] RELATIVES"? The prime reason for this list of course, but it goes without saying it can get a bit tedious at times when that's all there is. I think many would likewise agree with this.

I guess it's just proves that men and women of "good will" and seeking honest answers can still invariably land on different footings, replete with differing viewpoints and "lessons learned".

That said, let me wish you the best in 2006�also Hans, over in lovely Bienenb�ttel! Some day I hope to be able make it that far!

Same with you Rena, over there in beautiful England. Gotta locate me that Banbury place first though! Lots of "blond speaking" girls in that part of the country I hear (I beg you, tell me more). :wink:


PS ::

HP wrote:

There would be probably nowadays no Russians any-more, if those Germans of 1933 to 45 would have come into a position of "controlling" Russia.

That is a bit of an eye opener, as that would be A LOT of Russians they would have had to dispose with. But as with so many other rather tall tales from that epic conflict, anything is believable I suppose.

One last irony: hard to believe but the fastest growing political groups in present day Russia are those with Nationalist leanings and Nazi affiliation. Goes to prove how facts can sometimes be stranger than fiction. Maybe some of what Jim mentioned earlier isn't so loopy after all.