(no subject)

Hello,

I am looking for information related to my great grandfather Frederick Speckman.

He was born around 1844 in the Kingdom of Hanover and came to the US in about 1857 and ended up in San Francicsco where he married Anna Stoppler and had 19 children. He died after 1910.

I am trying to find out anything I can about him or his family in Germany. Like what town he was from or who is parents were and if his parents also came to the US.

Thanks for any help you can give me

Best Regards,

Barney Speckman
San Francisco, Califronia USA

Hi Barney:

Barney, you are playing roulette asking if anyone on the
list might know about your GGP and the town he came from.

You need to have some facts from the States and that is
where you are lucky.

In ESS EFF you have the Herb Caen
Library, where you can find Obits going back to the 49ers.
Look for your GGP's Obit, it is likely to indicate where
he came from. My GP came to the states in 1867 on the
Bremen, a sailing steamer. There are many articles about
the Bremen in the library's archives.

The Herb Caen Magazines and Newspapers Center (5th floor)
has magazines, newspapers, phone books and San Francisco
City Directories. 100 Larkin Street, San Francisco, CA
94102 � Ph: 415-557-4400
http://sfpl.org/librarylocations/main/mags.htm

Next, you have the California Genealogical Library (Sutro
Library). It is one of the largest and best in the
West. I found my GP's name on the passenger list of
the Bremmen. I found my other GGP and GP's marriage
records there (from Missiouri). If you can narrow down
the date your GGP arrived, you can very likely find a film
with his ship and name on it. They are in chronological
order, which makes it easier if you have a date.

Sutro Library
480 Winston Drive
San Francisco, CA 94132

The Sutro Library has one of the largest genealogical
collections west of Salt Lake City with extensive
resources for states other than California and basic
resources for California. The California Section of the
California State Library, Sacramento, has more materials
for California history and genealogy.

http://www.onelibrary.com/Library/calslsut.htm

Then you have the National Maritime Library out at Fort
Mason. The have copies of the Lloyds Registery and photos
of ships no one has heard of. They had a photo (yes a
photo) of the Bremen, when it was once in SF. I also
found many photos of the USS General Mann, the ship I went to Korea on. Many of the photos were of the (cruse) I was
on, but I didn't see my mug.

J. Porter Shaw Library at the San Francisco Maritime
National Historical Park

http://www.maritimelibraryfriends.org/

At the corner of Laguna and Beach streets
San Francisco, California 94123

OK, now lets go south a little. You have the National
Records center at:

1000 Commodore Drive
San Bruno, California 94066-2350

Finally, there are a lot of historical churches in SF.
Marriage records could very well be in one of the Historical Churches in SF.

You have the City and County of San Francico for many other records.

I would start with the obits and marraige records.

Good Luck,

Gale
Walnut Creek

Was at the Fog City Diner a couple of weeks ago, Farley and the Bears were not there.

First off, it is always best to include a subject line. Without one, many listers might not even look at your posting, having no idea what it might be about. I'll put my response under SPECKMAN.

Much like I wrote to Neil in Australia earlier today, it might be best to indicate what record searches you have performed to date locally on the American side. Without an idea of the city or town your ancestor comes from in Germany, you are somewhat like a raft in the middle of the sea. Knowing "Hanover" and little more puts you in the Atlantic let's say, as opposed to the entire seven seas, but not much further.

In a nutshell, you generally need to exhaust the available records on the local (American) side before hoping to jump the pond. Since none of us have any idea how much experience you may have, or how many records you have availed yourself to so far in this regard, it is hard to pinpoint the best approach to take or suggest. Once this is known, listers may offer up additional resources or ideas on how to proceed further. Obvious ones are records pertaining to vital stats (B-D-M), burials, obituaries, censuses and naturalizations. It simply extends in complexity from there. LDS resources as well as Internet search engines and genealogical websites are also "must" checks in ones research arsenal these days.

There is also the often effective method of hiring a professional genealogist/researcher on the German side. A number of them - all quite competent - are subscribers to this list. Their services are not necessarily cheap per se, but are still often reasonable due to their expertise with the German archives and available resources on their end. But here too, unless you have a few specifics to offer regarding your antecedents location, you may be in over your head, and this will curtail their effectiveness likewise. Or at a minimum, pretty much guarantee a larger research nick.

Jb

Hi Barney,

      If your great grandfather's name was Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann,
then he may be the one on an emigration list from the Osnabrück area. There
is a person listed from Dom (Haste,Schinkel). I'm not positive, but I think
those may be in or near the city of Osnabrück (from my map it looks that
way). He could have changed the spelling of the first name, and if the
middle name fits and if he dropped the second n in the name, this could be
your man. If so, you can order records on him. Speckman(n) seems to be a
fairly common German name.
    
      There are 4 other Speckmanns listed in the emigration archives:

    Speckmann, August Ferdinand 18388
    Speckmann, Cathrine Ilse 18149
    Speckmann, Dietrich Wilhelm 18388
    Speckmann, Marie Sophie 18388

      These are from the town of Uchte.

     On the other hand, there is a Friedr. Speckmann age 28 with a wife
Auguste age 20 on a ship from Hamburg in 1857:

http://immigrantships.net/v4/1800v4/main18570525.html

     Maybe first wife died before he met Anna Stoppler? If he had 19 kids
there would probably be two wives. Lots of women died in childbirth.

    According to your records he would have been 13 when he came to the USA?

     You should run some searches on these sites:

http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp
  www.familysearch.org (the LDS site that may have some clues for you.)

    Maybe you've already looked at those sites.

      I see that he is F.F. Speakman in the 1880 census in San Francisco.
Maybe he is the guy in the emigration archives--Friedrich Ferdinand in the
first paragraph above.

Good luck,
Barbara

Hi there,

I once had a colleague in school - she was a Speckmann, Daniela is her name.

She is from the farm Speckmann in Wellingholzhausen, Melle district.

This could be their phone: Speckmann Dirk u. Konrad
  Borgloher Str. 70 49326 Melle
05429 13 07

These are all of Speckmann:

   Speckmann
  Südweg 12 49326 Melle
05425 95 54 84
  
    Speckmann Dirk u. Konrad
  Borgloher Str. 70 49326 Melle
05429 13 07
  
    Speckmann Ernst
  Holterdorfer Str. 64 49326 Melle
05428 23 83
  
    Speckmann Gerald u. R.
  Mustersiedlung 9A 49324 Melle
05422 88 61
  
    Speckmann Heinrich Tischle...
  Holterdorfer Str. 64 49326 Melle
05428 3 06
  
    Speckmann Heinrich u. Gerd...
  Gerdener Str. 9 49326 Melle
05428 13 77
  
    Speckmann Heinrich-Wilhelm
  Gerdener Str. 9 49326 Melle
05428 92 15 52
  
    Speckmann Heinz
  Hirschberger Str. 6 49324 Melle
05422 27 61
  
    Speckmann Siegrid u. Heinr...
  Spechtsheide 16 49326 Melle
05428 15 28
  
    Speckmann Uwe
  Eickener Str. 36A 49324 Melle
05422 4 91 07
  
       Name Straße, Hausnummer Postleitzahl, Ort
Telefonnummer Details
    Speckmann Uwe
  Eickener Str. 36A 49324 Melle
05422 92 41 01
  
    Speckmann Volker
  Bielefelder Str. 67 49326 Melle
05428 19 37
  
    Speckmann Wilfried
  Wittenauer Str. 6 49324 Melle
05422 24 71
  
    Speckmann Wilhelm
  Haller Str. 48 49326 Melle
05428 6 66

Sven Honerkamp
Dipl. Kfm. (FH), M.A.
Einsteinstr. 12
44369 Dortmund

sven@honerkamps.de
www.honerkamps.de
Telefon +49 (0)231 8820399
Mobil +49 (0)163 6314216

Hi J B,

      Hire a researcher??? No way, that's too easy! You only do that when
you've exhausted every single bit of info you can find. Even then, you hope
and pray that the LDS will eventually copy all the records for EVERYWHERE.
Probably not in our lifetime. Anyway, there are so many resources that you
touch every base, beg people, search every mailing list and message board.
And Google is getting so good supplying more and more info. The hunt is
what makes it fun. Don't you have lots of friends and relatives who think
you're nuts?? Dead relatives? who cares? My problem is I never know when
to stop. I should be working on some England/Scotland stuff and Bavaria
stuff and some loose ends in Hannover besides. I wish Bavaria would have a
list for English-speaking folk. I know the Rootsweb one is there, but not
as many Germans write on that one as they do here.

   Sorry I forgot to write Speckman in my response on my last letter! That
is so helpful in the long run.

Barbara

Jb wrote:

In a nutshell, you generally need to exhaust the available records on the local (American) side before hoping to jump the pond. Since none of us have any idea how much experience you may have, or how many records you have availed yourself to so far in this regard, it is hard to pinpoint the best approach to take or suggest. Once this is known, listers may offer up additional resources or ideas on how to proceed further.

And then there's Barbara. She may not go back as far as some of us, but she is the H-L list MATRIARCH all the same, and worth her weight in gold. When Gale and Barbie-Lew decide to jump in to boot, consider half your work done already! The rest of us posters - on both sides of the Atlantic - are more or less hit-n-miss contributors and/or agent provocateurs (the latter pertains mostly to yours truly, so not to worry), but on any given day can bring home a helpful payload. Fred and Jane may offer up some insightful historical perspectives now and again, and when various German posters and old-timers chip in a bit more, it generally gets REAL good. Now lovely Rena from England may choose to cast her lot also, and she too rightly belongs to the latter category, only she remains true blue and royal so be prepared (myself, I can only clutch to Bohemian blood and beer, thus with teeth gnashing. Even Fosters seems out of reach). :wink:

Good luck mate. Looks like the valve has already cracked a bit.

Jb

PS. Did my eyes trick me, or did I happen to chance upon a Linda Pauling posting recently. Long time no see Linda -- where've u been keeping yourself lately! :slight_smile:

From: R&B Stewart <raybarbara@comcast.net>
To: Hannover-L <hannover-l@genealogy.net>
Subject: Re: [HN] (no subject)
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 15:18:48 -0700

Hi Barney,

      If your great grandfather's name was Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann,
then he may be the one on an emigration list from the Osnabr�ck area. There
is a person listed from Dom (Haste,Schinkel). I'm not positive, but I think
those may be in or near the city of Osnabr�ck (from my map it looks that
way). He could have changed the spelling of the first name, and if the
middle name fits and if he dropped the second n in the name, this could be
your man. If so, you can order records on him. Speckman(n) seems to be a
fairly common German name.

      There are 4 other Speckmanns listed in the emigration archives:

<snip>

Hi Barb

Well truth be known, I have not hired a professional researcher myself in all the years I've been pounding this pavement (it'd be hard to for a number of reasons), but it hasn't stopped me from occasionally tapping them for ideas. I also pride myself on doing the legwork myself, and it is indeed half the fun (the other half being an obvious love for punishment). I can recall the days when accelerated indexes ruled (who recalls those ancient, beastly things?), many moons before computer databasing took to the fore. So to use a researcher's services does seems like a bit of a faux paus (cheating to term it better? Maybe traitor?). Besides at this point and after all this head banging, I'm in a heightened category anyways, with lots of cuts and bruises to show for it (moreover, I've spent over 20 years doing private investigations, and though not genealogically based, there are obvious overlaps).

Of course once the LDS German record resources are exhausted (or remain non-microfilmed or fiched or datamined), as well as the various Net avenues and approaches, the professional European researcher looms ever more reasonable and appealing. Most do their work very professionally, and have backgrounds to match. In Germany, and without the proper credentials, private research is somewhat frowned upon, though this no doubt varies depending on location and repository staff. Even in the States you can see this, although it is not as pronounced as it is in much of Europe. For this reason and others, professional services do not come a la cheap, but nor does a lifetime of effort chasing ye old tail either. It often comes down to how much 'fun' you derive out of it personally, and how much you like taking on such challenges. Now for most who stick with it, the hunt often becomes the best part of the chase, paradoxes be damned. Who would know! :wink:

Don't you have lots of friends and relatives who think you're nuts??

Yes, and so do I at times (it's only fair, since it begs the obvious). :slight_smile:

So we merrily (wearily?) stagger forth, lunging at every windmill, looking over our shoulders at every decrepit and weed ridden cemetery we pass (in there maybe??). Only don't fault me if I eventually throw in the flag and collapse on one of the pro's gens doorsteps for my Schmidts and Schulzes. If they offer me a beer, I'm as good as done for (now you know the meaning behind sweet surrender).

Jb

Hi Gail,

Thanks so much for your great leads. Yes, I guess I was playing roulette and won with your thoughtful response.

Thanks again, you have pointed me to many good sources of information - I can't wait to follow up on them.

So far I have used online sources to research my German roots but it appears that I am at the end of the easy work and must now do some of the research in person.

Thanks again

Barney Speckman
Also of Walnut Creek

JB,

Thanks for your advice. I will do some more research on this side of the pond and then as you suggest be more specific in my requests. I am getting a better feeling from the traffic on this list of the complexity and addicting nature of this work. Also of how the list can be used.

Thanks for helping a rooky get started.

Barney Speckman

Hi Barbara,

Wow, what great info. Yes, he was FF Speckman and he is the one from the 1880 Census in SF. Sometimes it was Francis and a middle name and sometimes listed as F. I would not be surpised if he is the same guy. He is also in the 1870, 1900 and 1910 Censuses and then vanishes which leads me to believe he died before the 1920 Census. One wife only - Anna had all 19 children. I have been told recently that he probably had two NNs at the end but dropped one as did most Speckmans who came to the US.

You mention in your first paragraph that I can find Friedrich Ferdinand Speckmann on the emigration list. One from the Osnabruck area. Where do I get that list? Was that for 1857? See below.

I am in error in my original email. He was born in 1844 and came over to US in 1860 according to a US Census document so that would make him 16 when he came to the US. His future wife Anna came to US in 1857. Sorry for the confusion.

Barbara, thanks for the great info and tips. I will follow them up.

Barney Speckman

This may be slightly off-topic, but are you aware that LDS is in the process of digitizing all of its microfilm records? Go to

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Library/Education/frameset_education.asp?PAGE=education_conferences_fgs_2005.asp

and click on the third presentation in the list - "A Sneak Preview of the Near Future" - for details.

Regards,
Sylvia

Hello Barney,

        Yea! maybe we've found the "permission to emigrate" for your
Friedrich Speckmann.

       This is the way the search looks in the Osnabrück archives:

   Speckmann, Friedrich Ferdinand 22259

       That number 22259 leads to this code:

Bestell-Nr.: Staatsarchiv Osnabrück, Rep 335 Nr. 792

     With that code, you can order the records from Osnabrück by using the
email for the Niedersaschen which is:
    Hannover@nla.niedersachsen.de They will get the record and mail them
to you with a fee of maybe $25. The price varies.
      
     I found that code number to point to Dom (Haste, Schinkel). I
explained that in my previous letter.

      You don't really have to go through the whole process, because I have
done the search for you. So that you can understand the process, read
what follows.
     Below is a version I put together to navigate through the emigration
archives. It has changed now so that ordering is done through the one email
address above. You can write in English and they will fill the order. I
have not been so lucky to find my relatives, but others say it is a
reasonable process. Following my "directions" below is a translation done
by Fred Rump which will explain what you might find in the records and also
some other interesting stuff.

Good luck!
Barbara

Searching the Osnabrück, Hannover, Wolfenbüttel emigration records is done
by going to the website:

http://app.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/findbuch/

It is a little confusing to use, especially if you don't know German. On
the first page:
Choose one of the three locations on the bar & click Abschicken
Go to Index in the middle of the page and click
Fill in the surname you are looking for in the box "Suchbegriff"
Choose Personen where it says nach Ort
Click on Suchen starten and you will get a list of persons who emigrated
from Germany with that name. Or you may get nothing! Try the same search on
all 3 locations.
Note the number on the right column. That number will direct you to the
town later. Click on a name that matches a person you are looking for and
you will get a code that will be what you use to order the record.
Finding what area the person comes from is not easy. On the Hannover
site, it often names a town right in the code. For Osnabrück it is harder,
although it sometimes names the town or part of it. Don't presume anything
about the town . You need to go back to the page where you first clicked on
Index and this time click on Gliederung.
There you will see a list of towns and if you click on the numbers on
the left, you will get a listing of the numbers of people who emigrated from
that area. The numbers start with 1 and go up from there. So if the number
is 5 digits it will be closer to the bottom of the list. But you have to go
to the one that has the number in it from the right column of the page with
the list of names. When you find the right one, the code will match the
code you saw earlier tied to the name you were looking for. I know this is
confusing. I have explained the process many times on this site and it
never is very clear!
Then, you can order the records from the archives The email
addresses are:

    Hannover@nla.niedersachsen.de

Nice offering Sylvia. The future for such undertakings is only getting rosier. When the vast resources and know-how of the LDS organization (along with progressive firms like Ancestry.com, et al) fully synthesizes with digital technology, we will all be the blessed recipients. It is truly the dawning of a new genealogical age. Who could have guessed the impact of the transistor and microchip in so many ways?

Jb

You're beyond the rookie stage because you have tested the waters and are now willing to dive in. With that attitude, you certainly won't sink. Gail and Barbara laid out some helpful specifics, where I prefer to generalize. Don't overlook what Sven posted either. Keep that list of names and numbers in the background somewhere. You never know if it may come in handy at some point. It may be too early to tell yet, but you never know. Now I see someone else here is hunting for Speckmans/Speckmanns. Time to trade notes!

Hopefully you'll stay active on H-L. Everyone's inputs are welcome, large and small. It's what makes this list "happen". If you were to follow the trials and tribulations of Max B here, you will see how persistence can indeed pay off. And that persistence was in part fired by list members' suggestions. This should be a blueprint from which everyone can take heart.

Good luck. Jb

Hi Barbara,

I cannot I thank you enough for your excellant help. I see why you gave me the results without getting into the process - it is very detailed.

I will do as you have suggested and order the records and then practice up on my German so that I can make heads or tails of the records when they arrive.

Thanks so much again,

Barney

Hi Sven,
Thanks for the leads and phone numbers. I think they will be of use as I get further along into my research.
Barney