Hi everyone.
I'm looking for my ancestor, Joachim Borchert (Borchardt). In his death
record (Brookfield, Wisconsin, USA) it is mentioned that his birth (poss.
baptism) date is 3. Dec. 1826. In the U.S. Census records of 1860 & 1870, it
is noted that he was from Mecklenburg. In those records, he is referred to
as "Joseph" (prob. because "Joachim" is an unusual name in America.
I was hoping that if any of you who are now working at the moment on
Mecklenburg church books with a Geburtsregister covering his birthdate (3.
Dec. 1826) could look and see if it is there or not. It would be useful also
to know if the record is *not *in the church book of a certain place, as
then I wouldn't have to look there again.
Danke vielmals im voraus, Jack Bandy
jackbandy40@gmail.com
Jack,
Do you know where about he was from? Mecklenburg is still quite big and
there is (as far as I know) no such thing as ONE Geburtsregister. That would
make our research so much easier though. Going through every single church
book is really time consuming and I doubt that it is quaranteed that he was
born that day. On top of that Borchardt is not really an uncommon name which
makes it hard to say he could be from this or that part of Mecklenburg.
So what other information can you provide? When did he immigrate? If he is
already in a 1860 census, he will not be listed in the Mecklenburg Census
from 1867. The last one before that was in 1819 and Joachim was not born
yet. It looks like you are looking for the famous needle in the hay stack
(German expression: die Nadel im Heuhaufen suchen). Did you check the
departure list? Maybe you will find his birth town/village in there.
Greetings from Germany,
Melanie
i believe through my Dust relatives in Buffalo, New York there were some Borcherts buried and maybe your relatives so look in that area to see if you find a connection here in the USA first and might find a connection back to Germany. Also Check West Seneca, New York area I think that is the area they were from too.
Kind Regards,
Margaret M. Koski
Hi Melanie R
No, I do not know from where in Mecklenburg he came from. Yes, Mecklenburg
(prob. -Schwerin) is very big. And precisely therein lies my problem. That's
why I made the request for everyone who happens to be working on the church
books of a place in Mecklenburg, to check in those records if my Joachim
Borchert is there. I was hoping that I might get lucky and be able to avoid
going through each Kirchspiel, one after the other, until I found him -
which would be, as you said, really time-consuming (& expensive). As to
whether he was born on that day or not, his wife (also from Mecklenburg, but
came over separately, with her first husband) died around the same time.
In her death record, her date-of-birth and birthplace were mentioned and I
was able to confirm that both were correct. Also, her father's birth date &
birthplace were mentioned in his death record. And I was able to confirm
that that was correct also. So I have no reason to suspect that Joachim's
stated date-of-birth is false.
I had hoped to find his marriage record (must have been ca. 1855, based on
the ages of the children - both from her first marriage, as well as from her
marriage to Joachim Borchert), but that has proved to be a dead end too. The
church they belonged to in Brookfield was founded first later and they don't
know of any earlier churches in the area. As far as a civil record goes, I
checked the website for the Waukesha County Register of Deeds. They have a
section for all the early records which can be viewed on-line, but it's not
there either.
As for the departure list, maybe you can let me know where I can look for
that. Most of the lists I've seen up till now seem to offer only very
general info about from where the immigrants came.
Yes, it does look like I'm looking for eine Nadel im Heuhaufen. But, maybe
that's just Schicksal. A challenge to be overcome. In any case, he's the
only one left of my emigrant/immigrant ancestors who was born in Europe and
died in America, where I have not been able to find out in which Ortschaft
he or she was born. Once he's found, then there'll be no more empty spaces
on the Ahnentafel.
Thanks for the advice. Sincerely, Jack Bandy
Thanks for the advice, but I'd say it's very probable that Joachim Borchert
came to Wisconsin directly from Mecklenburg & not via New York state. Jack
Jack,
I've been reading your emails and responses with interest, but have
some questions for you.
1. Could you please tell us Joachim's date of death. It would tell us
which census records we could look in to find more information.
2. You mention finding him in the US Census records of 1860 and 1870.
What county and state was he in? I can't seem to locate him in
Wisconsin, and I'm usually pretty good at finding people.
3. Do you have any idea of when he came to the US from Mecklenburg?
This is important so that the ship manifests can be located--both the
embarcation (departure) and the disembarcation (arrival in new place)
manifests. The departure list can be found more easily if the arrival
list is found, and there may be a clue as to where he came from.
I'll be glad to look in records if you can help us with this
information!
Cheryle
Hi Cheryle,
1. Joachim Borchardt died 10. Oct. 1902 in Brookfield, Wisconsin. He was 75
years, 10 months & 7 days old when he died. In the same record, it says he
was born 3. Dec. 1826.
2. This information came from Bruce Jacoby c/o RootsWeb.
1860 Census for Waukesha Co. pg. 85: Joseph Burkhart / Farmer / Mecklenburg
/ age: 32
(b. ca. 1828)
1870 Census for Waukesha Co. pg. 6: Joseph Berkes (Bikhert) / Farmer /
Mecklenburg /
age: 45 (b. ca. 1825)
1880 Census for Waukesha Co. pg. 19B: Joseph Bickhert / Farmer / Prussia /
age: 43(!)
(b. ca. 1837(!))
The data contained in these censuses is notoriously wrong; whether name
spellings or ages.
Joachim Borchert's wife, Sophia (born Heid(en) / 1. marr. to Karstien
/"Christien" in the 1860 census where his children were still living) was
born 26. Nov. 1826 in Dalberg (Kirchspiel Cramon). Fortunately, this info
was contained in her death record (I was able to find her birth record in
the Cramoner books). She appears in all 3 of these censuses also as
Joachim's wife. Yet, her derived birth years are 1828, 1825 & 1837, just
like her husband. In other words, either the census-taker didn't even bother
to ask them how old they were (or didn't believe them), or they lied about
their age. I tend to believe the former, as he didn't make much of an effort
to get the name right either. Bottom line: the church records (where people
spoke their Muttersprache) are much more accurate than anything the censuses
have to offer.
3. As they must have married in 1855, he must have emigrated before that.
That's not saying much, but it's the only definite info I have to go on.
Any follow-up info you can come up with, Cheryle, will be greatly
appreciated. Thanks/Danke! Jack.
Jack,
I checked the church books of Ivenack, RA Stavenhagen for 1826 and there was
no Joachim Borchardt born. There are at least two families with the name
Borchert though. You might want to keep that in mind, in case you can't find
him anywhere. Maybe you can then try to find all families of that name in
that time. Another time consuming work though.
The departure lists are online at ancestry.com and called Hamburger
Passagierlisten. If he left from Hamburg you might find him. But they start
in 1855 and the early years only have a huge hand written index. What does
it say in the US Censuses about his year of immigration?
Greetings from Germany,
Melanie
Jack,
When I attended a PALAM (Palatines to America) conference last
summer, I found out about this web site which gave me some clues as to where
my German ancestor surnames might have come from.
Go to: Geogen Deutschland (Onlinedienst) - christoph.stoepel.net and
enter the surname you are looking for. Several charts are available showing
relative and absolute distribution for a name. No guarantee, but I did find
that this allowed me to concentrate my research in a certain area first!
Good luck.
Carole
In US Census of 1900 (thanks, Joan Rebholz!), it claims that he came in
1852, and that his wife also came (seperately) in1852. I know that, as a
matter of fact that his wife came in 1851 (with her first husband, their
children, her father & her unmarried siblings). It also says in that Census
record that he was never naturalized. A departure date of 1852 for Joachim
would be theoretically possible as well as plausible. Jack
Jack,
I've read that census record. It says Na which means Naturalized. It
also says he's been in the US 48 years and that he arrived 1852. I've
looked at all the census records for him--quite a variety of different
spellings and ages, but that is perfectly normal with the census and
given that name.
I would suggest that if you could find some church records in
Wisconsin, that would give you the best bet of discovering where they
came from.
Are you a member of Ancestry, and can you access all these records? I
had a draft of a long email to you, but if you have them all, I won't
send them.
Cheryle
In US Census of 1900 (thanks, Joan Rebholz!), it claims that he came
in
1852, and that his wife also came (seperately) in1852. I know that,
as a
matter of fact that his wife came in 1851 (with her first husband,
their
children, her father & her unmarried siblings). It also says in that
Census
record that he was never naturalized. A departure date of 1852 for
Joachim
would be theoretically possible as well as plausible. Jack
> Jack,
> I checked the church books of Ivenack, RA Stavenhagen for 1826 and
there
> was
> no Joachim Borchardt born. There are at least two families with
the name
> Borchert though. You might want to keep that in mind, in case you
can't
> find
> him anywhere. Maybe you can then try to find all families of that
name in
> that time. Another time consuming work though.
> The departure lists are online at ancestry.com and called
Hamburger
> Passagierlisten. If he left from Hamburg you might find him. But
they start
> in 1855 and the early years only have a huge hand written index.
What does
> it say in the US Censuses about his year of immigration?
> Greetings from Germany,
> Melanie
>
> -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [2]mecklenburg-l-bounces@genealogy.net
> [[3]mailto:mecklenburg-l-bounces@genealogy.net] Im Auftrag von
jack bandy
> Gesendet: Freitag, 26. M�rz 2010 13:37
> An: Mecklenburg-L
> Betreff: Re: [M-L] Joachim Borchert
>
> Hi Melanie R
> No, I do not know from where in Mecklenburg he came from. Yes,
Mecklenburg
> (prob. -Schwerin) is very big. And precisely therein lies my
problem.
> That's
> why I made the request for everyone who happens to be working on
the church
> books of a place in Mecklenburg, to check in those records if my
Joachim
> Borchert is there. I was hoping that I might get lucky and be able
to avoid
> going through each Kirchspiel, one after the other, until I found
him -
> which would be, as you said, really time-consuming (& expensive).
As to
> whether he was born on that day or not, his wife (also from
Mecklenburg,
> but
> came over separately, with her first husband) died around the same
time.
> In her death record, her date-of-birth and birthplace were
mentioned and I
> was able to confirm that both were correct. Also, her father's
birth date &
> birthplace were mentioned in his death record. And I was able to
confirm
> that that was correct also. So I have no reason to suspect that
Joachim's
> stated date-of-birth is false.
> I had hoped to find his marriage record (must have been ca. 1855,
based on
> the ages of the children - both from her first marriage, as well
as from
> her
> marriage to Joachim Borchert), but that has proved to be a dead
end too.
> The
> church they belonged to in Brookfield was founded first later and
they
> don't
> know of any earlier churches in the area. As far as a civil record
goes, I
> checked the website for the Waukesha County Register of Deeds.
They have a
> section for all the early records which can be viewed on-line, but
it's not
> there either.
> As for the departure list, maybe you can let me know where I can
look for
> that. Most of the lists I've seen up till now seem to offer only
very
> general info about from where the immigrants came.
> Yes, it does look like I'm looking for eine Nadel im Heuhaufen.
But, maybe
> that's just Schicksal. A challenge to be overcome. In any case,
he's the
> only one left of my emigrant/immigrant ancestors who was born in
Europe and
> died in America, where I have not been able to find out in which
Ortschaft
> he or she was born. Once he's found, then there'll be no more
empty spaces
> on the Ahnentafel.
> Thanks for the advice. Sincerely, Jack Bandy
>
>
> > Jack,
> > Do you know where about he was from? Mecklenburg is still quite
big and
> > there is (as far as I know) no such thing as ONE
Geburtsregister. That
> > would
> > make our research so much easier though. Going through every
single
> church
> > book is really time consuming and I doubt that it is quaranteed
that he
> was
> > born that day. On top of that Borchardt is not really an
uncommon name
> > which
> > makes it hard to say he could be from this or that part of
Mecklenburg.
> >
> > So what other information can you provide? When did he
immigrate? If he
> is
> > already in a 1860 census, he will not be listed in the
Mecklenburg Census
> > from 1867. The last one before that was in 1819 and Joachim was
not born
> > yet. It looks like you are looking for the famous needle in the
hay stack
> > (German expression: die Nadel im Heuhaufen suchen). Did you
check the
> > departure list? Maybe you will find his birth town/village in
there.
> >
> > Greetings from Germany,
> > Melanie
> >
> > -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: [5]mecklenburg-l-bounces@genealogy.net
> > [[6]mailto:mecklenburg-l-bounces@genealogy.net] Im Auftrag von
jack bandy
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. M�rz 2010 21:51
> > An: [7]Mecklenburg-L@genealogy.net
> > Betreff: [M-L] Joachim Borchert
> >
> > Hi everyone.
> > I'm looking for my ancestor, Joachim Borchert (Borchardt). In
his death
> > record (Brookfield, Wisconsin, USA) it is mentioned that his
birth (poss.
> > baptism) date is 3. Dec. 1826. In the U.S. Census records of
1860 & 1870,
> > it
> > is noted that he was from Mecklenburg. In those records, he is
referred
> to
> > as "Joseph" (prob. because "Joachim" is an unusual name in
America.
> > I was hoping that if any of you who are now working at the
moment on
> > Mecklenburg church books with a Geburtsregister covering his
birthdate
> (3.
> > Dec. 1826) could look and see if it is there or not. It would be
useful
> > also
> > to know if the record is *not *in the church book of a certain
place, as
Hi Cheryle, I guess I read "No" where it said "Na". Church records: their
marriage occured before the church & Brookfield was founded and they don't
know of a predecessor church that they might have belonged to. It's also
difficult for me to do field work in the area, as I live about 5000 miles
away.
I'm hoping to find a civil marriage record in Waukesha Co. WI & have asked a
relative of mine who lives in the general area to check that out for me.
Hoping for a break, Jack
Hi Jack--I can't help you with Joachim, but I am in the same boat regarding a predecessor church in the Brookfield area. I am trying to find baptism records for my Schroeders who lived in the Brookfield/Elm Grove/Waukesha area between 1865 and 1881, when the family moved to Clark County Wisconsin. I have the baptism dates from their confirmation entries in the records of St. Peter's Lutheran Church in Dorchester, Clark County, but I'd like to find the actual birth/baptism records if possible.
I guess this is a long way of saying that if you have any luck finding any evidence of an early church or worship group, I'd appreciate it if you posted about it to the Mecklenburg list, and I will do the same.
Good luck with your research!
All the best,
Cindy Lindau
Looking for Schroeders in Mecklenburg and Wisconsin
jack bandy wrote:
ST Peters was organized in 1879. If the baptisms were not held there, they might be able to tell you the name of their previous church. Their email address is stpeter@pcpros.net.
Both websies of the ELCA and LCMS have a congregational search feature.
John Dornheim
Hi Cindy, You might try Trinity United Church of Christ (originally the
Dreieinigkeitskirche) at 4435 N. Calhoun Rd. Brrokfield WI 53005 /
www.tritybrookfield.org . It was founded in 1869 & I was able to find a lot
of records for my family from there. The person who dug up the records for
me, Rich Wullschleger, doesn't seem to be there anymore, but you can try to
contact them anyways. Schroeder is, of course, a very common name - there
were Schroeders in every parish I've checked out in Mecklenburg and any
telephone book for SE WI will reveal the same. So, you'll prob. need to
rather specific with any request.
You might also check out a special feature of Website for the Register of
Deeds in Waukesha Co.: www.linkstothepast.com/waukesha/families.php "family
pages". There are various Schroeders there in various spelling-versions. I'm
pretty sure though that this site is not the result of a systematic
canvassing of early church or civil records, but just what individual
contributors have offered.
Hope this helps, Jack
Hi Jack,
I checked the Hamburg passenger lists 1851 and 1852. There is no Jochim or Johann Borchert on these lists. I could only find two Borcherts from Mecklenburg, the others were from other German states. There are no lists for spring 1853.
L. Borchert, Bedienter, born in Vorbeck/Meckl.. He was listed on two ships: "Maria", to Rio de Janeiro, left 17 May 1851, and "Elbe", to New York, left 20 May 1851. I suppose he went with the second ship.
Friedr. Burchhard, wife, children betw. 6 and 18, from Altstadt/Meckl., ship "Providentia", to Quebec, left 5 June 1851.
Regards,
Anne
Thanks Anne for checking that out. The Census record claims he came over in
1852. Based on how often they got things wrong, maybe that bit of info isn't
worth much. All I know is that it must have been 1855 at the very
latest. But, then again, that's based on a census record too! Jack