Liebe Liste!
Ich suche nach Sophia HITZEMANN aus Pollhagen, Schaumburg-Lippe. Sie heiratete am 23.04.1872 in Lake Co, Illinois, USA Johann BATZ, geboren 1838 in Hoye (?), Bayern, gestorben am 15.11.1923 in Lake Co, Illinois.
Frohe Ostern, Andrea (Korbanka)
Hallo Andrea,
da wird es, glaube ich, etwas schwierig, mit so wenigen Informationen die richtige Person zu finden. Ich kann Dir aber folgende Seite �ber Pollhagen empfehlen:
Allerdings taucht der Name Hitzemann bei den Auswanderern nicht auf. Ich selbst habe in meiner Datei ein paar Hitzemanns, allerdings nicht aus Pollhagen. Daf�r aber eine aus Illinois:
Magdalena HITZEMANN, * 15.03.1879 Horse Prairie, ILL, + 26.02.1947 St. Louis, MO.
x 25.10.1900 St. Louis, MO Wilhelm Otto RATHERT.
Magdalena war die Tochter von Ernst Hitzemann und Katharine Baiun.
Ansonsten w�re wohl hilfreich, mehr �ber die Ein- bzw. Auswanderung zu erfahren, um auf das Geburtsjahr zur�ckrechnen zu k�nnen. Bei www.castlegarden.org finde ich Folgende:
Soph. Hitzemann, Daughter
Age 2
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 16 May 1857
Origin Germany
Port Bremen, London & Southampton
Last Residence U
Destination Illinois
Plan Unknown
Ship Queen Of The South
Passage Unknown
Soph. Hitzemann, Daughter
Age 13
Sex F
Literacy U
Arrived 16 May 1857
Origin Germany
Port Bremen, London & Southampton
Last Residence U
Destination Illinois
Plan Unknown
Ship Queen Of The South
Passage Unknown
Die erste k�nnte es sein!
Ich hoffe, es hilft ein bisschen. Viel Erfolg bei der weiteren Suche.
Beste Gr��e und frohe Ostern aus Langenhagen,
Bj�rn (Sassenberg)
Meine Daten:
www.bjoern-sassenberg.de/page7.html
Hello,
If you have looked at the search on the LDS site, there are MANY
Sophia Hitzemanns. I did not find your specific one, but here are the
church addresses for the area around Pollhagen:
http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/NSAC/SLP/kb.html
Earlier church records would have been in Meerbeck.
There is a website for Probsthagen which is quite close to Pollhagen.
There are many Hitzemanns in the list which may be helpful as you research
that line:
http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/NSAC/SLP/probst/OSB/index.html
There is another shiplist with the Hitzeman name on Oct 23, 1857 or it
could be 1859. The Jeverland.
10* Hitzeman, Fred 46 M Farmer Prussia
11* Hitzeman, Willamine 46 M Prussia
12 Hitzeman, Ernest 17 M Prussia
13 Hitzeman, William 8 M Prussia
14 Hitzeman, Sophie 3 F Prussia
However, I think it may be more likely that your family is the one that
Bjorn wrote about. Other Hitzemanns on that ship were:
Mary (wife) 50
JnH (farmer) 16
Hce " 55
Hca " 30
Engel (Daughter) 19
Derd. " 7
Chn (son) 9
Che 24
Sophie (daughter) 2
Sophie " 13
I think this may be more than one family.
Good luck,
Barbara
Dear Andrea, dear Barbara,
Liebe Andrea, liebe Barbara,
I found another Website
Ich fand eine weitere Webseite
"From Schaumburg-Lippe to Southwestern Illinois" http://webpages.charter.net/lpw74/schaum_.htm
with some Hitzemann-names:
mit einigen Namen Hitzemann:
Last Name, First Name, Birth/Place, Illinois County, Source, Year arrived
Zuname, Vorname, Geburt/Ort, Landkreis in Illinois, Quelle, Ankunftsjahr
Mac = Macoupin; Mad = Madison; Rnd = Randolph Ch. = Church
Hitzemann, Sophie W., 1854/Rnd, Ch. Record, 1857
Hitzemann, Ernst W., 1842/, Rnd, Ch. Record, 1857
Hitzemann, Wilhelmine S., 1837/, Rnd, Ch. Record, 1857
Hitzemann, Friedrich W., 1835/, Rnd, Ch. Record, 1857
Hitzemann, Christine E., 1808/Stemmen, Rnd, Ch. Record, 1846
Hitzemann, Johann W., 1848/, Rnd, Ch. Record, 1857
Hitzemann, Johann F., 1811/StemmenRnd, Ch. Record, 1857
Hitzemann, Heinrich W., 1839/, Rnd, Ch. Record, 1857
Again the year 1857 is mentioned and again we have a very young Sophie.
Wiederum ist das Jahr 1857 erw�hnt und wiederum haben wir eine sehr junge Sophie.
Andrea, it would help, if you tell us the place, your Sophie lived in.
Andrea, es w�rde helfen, wenn Du uns den Ort nennst, wo Deine Sophie lebte.
Kindly regards and a happy Easter from Langenhagen, Germany,
Freundliche Gr��e und frohe Ostern aus Langenhagen, Deutschland,
Bj�rn
Hallo Bj�rn!
Ganz vielen Dank f�r die Recherchen!
Ich suche Sophia HITZEMANN f�r eine amerikanische Listenfreundin. Sie gab mir folgende weitere Information:
I have an obiturary of Sophie that states she lives in Pollhagen and arrived in the US when she was 15 years old which would make her arrival date about 1869. It gives no parents information. And since she married within a couple of years after her arrival, there is no census information showing her parents either. Further it says that she left one brother and sister in Germany when she immigrated but does not give their names.
Later census lists her birth as Bremen, Hanover but I tend to believe the obiturary as that is information given by her family.
Hier nochmal die Daten von Sophia HITZEMANN:
Place of birth: Pollhagen, Schaumburg-Lippe, Germany
Marriage: 23 Apr 1872, Lake Co, Illinois
Spouse: Johann BATZ, Birth: 1838 Hoye (?), Bayern, Death: 15 Nov 1923, Lake Co, Illinois
Vielen Dank, Andrea (Korbanka)
Andrea Korbanka wrote:
I have an obiturary of Sophie that states she lives in Pollhagen and arrived
in the US when she was 15 years old which would make her arrival date about
1869. It gives no parents information.
Intriguing to say the least. Has your friend searched the various 1870 US Federal Census indexes yet for HITZEMANN? Illinois and New York would be obvious starting points. Has a port of entry been determined (I suspect not)? NY would be a logical starting point for this time period.
Further it says that she left one brother and sister in
Germany when she immigrated but does not give their names.
Most fascinating. Did she come alone (as a runaway/stowaway), or with extended family relations, or even a boyfriend? Or perhaps with just her father -- or mother for that matter if they were divorced (or she was fleeing her hubby)? And if with both parents, why did they leave some of the kinder back in Deutschland (unless they were very young, or maybe half/step siblings)? Moreover, it appears the children never reunited in America, which makes for an even more curious story.
Later census lists her birth as Bremen, Hanover but I tend to believe the
obiturary as that is information given by her family.
You are probably correct in your assumption. IMO that 1870 US census must be searched pronto (unless I'm missing something in what you have stated). If your friend is in the States, he/she could do it at a local LDS FHC or even large city library (per inter-library loan of microfilms if necessary). Whether Sophie actually made it to America by the time the census was enumerated in 1870 remains the key question. Here's wishing you a rainbow that it happened.
Jb
Hi Andrea:
I can't add any specifics, but a couple of the locations you mentioned brought up thoughts with me. You mentioned Hoye (?), which to me means Hoya, which is north and a little west of Nienburg. This is northwest of Hannover (city).
Pollhagen is/was located in Schaumburg-Lippe:
http://feefhs.org/maps/gerw/gw-brun.html
This is a small area running southwest from Neustadt, which is just northwest of Hannover (city). Pollhagen is straight west of Hannover.
Hoya and Pollhagen are about 56 K apart.
Using this logic, I can't reconcile Hoya [Hoye (?)}and Bayern, which I understand is an area in southern Germany.
Gale
Andrea,
I've left off children and other family and focused just on Sophia's birth year. It is consistently c1855 except in 1900 when it is actually given as May 1851. Arrival date varies between 1868 and 1869.
1880:
John Bats, age 42 (b. c1838)
Sophia Bats, age 25 (b. c1855)
1900:
John Batz, born Oct 1835, age 64, arrived U.S. 1856, naturalized
Sophia Batz, born May 1851, age 49, arrived U.S. in 1868
1910:
John Batz, age 76 (b. c1834), arrived U. S. 1856, naturalized
Sophia Batz, age 55 (b. c1855), arrived U.S. 1869
1920
John Batz, age 84 (b. c 1836), arrived U.S. 1856
Sophia Batz, age 65 (b. c1855), arrived U.S. 1869
You mention their marriage as 23 Apr 1872 in Lake County, IL. I checked the Illinois Marriage online database and did not find them listed under the names John Batz/Bats and Sophie/Sophia Hitzemann; however I found record dated 12 Apr 1872 for John Pats and Ernestine S. Hitseman. I'm guessing this is your couple as the date is probably for the marriage bond and not necessarily the day of the marriage. This gives you another given name to search.... Ernestine.
Since Lake County is on the Illinois border with Wisconsin I checked Wisconsin as well as IL. I found the following which is a possible match although the county is further north than I had expected. I didn't find anyone who matched up in IL
Menomonie, Dunn County, WI (1870 Federal Census, 11 Jul 1870, page 55 & 56)
Dwelling 332, Family 338
Hintzman, Wm., age 45, farmer, born Prussia
Hintzman, Wilhelmina, age 38, Keeps House, born in Prussia
Hintzman, Ernestina, age 12, At Home, born in Prussia
Hintzman, August, age 6, born in WI
Hintzman, Amelia, age 4, born in WI
Hintzman, William, age 1, born in WI
Per the children's births the family left German during or after 1858 and arrived in the U.S. before 1864 which is earlier than listed for your Sophie. More research and better documentation will be needed to determine if this is the same woman or not.
I also used the CastleGarden website and found the following.
3 Apr 1869
Ship Hansa
Ernestine Hitzmann, age 14
Origin: Germany
Last Residence: Brueckeburg (I'm sure this is Buckeburg which is in Schaumburg-Lippe)
Destination: U.S.
I didn't find anyone else with the surname Hitzmann or similar spelling on the ship. This girl fits exactly with the information you provided, but again documentation is needed to verify if they are the same person.
Good Luck!
Hi Andrea,
Is there any possiblity that Sophie had a much longer name. On the LDS
site, I find these:
1. Engel Marie Sophie Hitzemann - International Genealogical Index / GE
Gender: Female Birth: 26 NOV 1853 Volksdorf,Schaumburg, , Hannover, Preussen
3. Engel Marie Sophie Hitzemann - International Genealogical Index / GE
Gender: Female Birth: 26 SEP 1853 Volksdorf, , Hannover, Preussen
Father: Ernst Friedrich Gottlieb Hitzemann
Mother: Engel Marie Eleonore Vehling
Volksdorf is in that same area as Pollhagen, etc. Could she be listed
as born in one of the other towns nearby and later lived in Pollhagen?
There is no church in Pollhagen or Volksdorf. Çhurch records could in
Meerbeck.
Barbara
Hallo Björn!
Ganz vielen Dank für die Recherchen!
Ich suche Sophia HITZEMANN für eine amerikanische Listenfreundin. Sie gab
mir folgende weitere Information:I have an obiturary of Sophie that states she lives in Pollhagen and arrived
in the US when she was 15 years old which would make her arrival date about
1869. It gives no parents information. And since she married within a
couple of years after her arrival, there is no census information showing
her parents either. Further it says that she left one brother and sister in
Germany when she immigrated but does not give their names.
Later census lists her birth as Bremen, Hanover but I tend to believe the
obiturary as that is information given by her family.Hier nochmal die Daten von Sophia HITZEMANN:
Place of birth: Pollhagen, Schaumburg-Lippe, Germany
Marriage: 23 Apr 1872, Lake Co, Illinois
Spouse: Johann BATZ, Birth: 1838 Hoye (?), Bayern, Death: 15 Nov 1923,
Lake
Dear Barbara!
This might be her as several of the children born here in the US used the Engel in their name.
Thanks, Andrea
Hello Andrea,
Hallo Andrea,
I do not think, that this is "yours"! As you have seen, same names were given to several children in the same place. The name Hitzemann as well as the names Engel, Marie and Sophie were very common in Schaumburg.
Ich glaube nicht, dass diese "Deine" ist! Wie Du gesehen hast, wurden die gleichen Namen an mehrere Kinder im gleichen Ort vergeben. Der Name Hitzemann, sowie die Namen Engel, Marie und Sophie waren sehr h�ufig in Schaumburg.
Many thanks to Joel, who gave us very useful information. The mentioned Ernestine Sophie Hitzemann is the person you searched for!
Vielen Dank an Joel, der uns wirklich wertvolle Informationen gab. Die erw�hnte Ernestine Sophie Hitzemann ist Deine gesuchte Person!
Now, I would concentrate to look after a child born about 1855 in Pollhagen with the name Ernestine and Sophie. As mentioned Pollhagen was part of Meerbeck parish. Films of the churchbooks of Meerbeck can be seen here (as well as in Family History Centers in the United States):
Nun w�rde ich mich auf die Suche nach einem Kind mit den Namen Ernestine und Sophie machen, das ungef�hr 1855 in Pollhagen geboren wurde. Wie bereits erw�hnt wurde, war Pollhagen Teil des Kirchspiels Meerbeck. Mikrofilme von Merbeck k�nnen hier eingesehen werden (wie auch in den Familienforschungszentren in den Vereinigten Staaten):
Staatsarchiv B�ckeburg
Schlo�
31 675 B�ckeburg
Postanschrift: Postfach 1350, 31 665 B�ckeburg
Tel. +49 (57 22) 96 77 - 30
Fax: +49 (57 22) 12 89
E-Mail: Bueckeburg@nla.niedersachsen.de
�ffnungszeiten: Montag-Freitag 8.00-16.00 Uhr
So far, kindly reagards,
So weit, viele Gr��e,
Bj�rn
Hi Folks,
Birthdates can really be difficult from census records. It depends on
who is answering the question, how the census-taker wrote it down, figuring
the true age would depend on when the birthday occurs in the census year and
when the census was done in any year. My great-grandmother's birthdate on
her tombstone in Nebraska was off by a year and half! That was only brought
to our intention when we went to Germany and saw the actual baptismal
record.
I won't bore you with the discrepancies in a family in Scotland I've been
researching. The census record varies sometimes as much as 3 years. It is
maddening.
I'm really playing the devil's advocate here, but it is still possible
that the record with John Pats and Ernestine Hitseman are entirely another
couple.
I also would say that the person I found in the LDS records from
Volfsdorf MAY NOT be the Sophie you look for! Finding proof of all of this
can be really difficult.
Naming patterns also can be very helpful, but yet, not proof. I just
wish all our ancestors had not named their children with so many names.
Which is the one commonly used??? On the other hand, in Scotland there is
usually only one given name and that can be a problem, too.
You did some thorough hunting, Joel!
Keep up the search, Andrea!
Barbara
I forgot this comment. Ernestine came from Bückeburg (southwest of
Stadthagen) or some such, that is farther south and really not in the
immediate vicinity of Pollhagen. Pollhagen is nearer Meerbeck(where the
early church records are held for Pollhagen), Probsthagen and the area north
of Stadthagen.
Isn't it fun?
Barbara
Maybe, B�ckeburg was named, because it was the capital of the Principality of Schaumburg-Lippe?
Bj�rn
Bj�rn, Barbara and Joel and all the others!
Many, many thanks for your researching. I forwarded the emails to my american list friend. The last response was:
Ernestine Hitzemann
Year: 1869
Age: 14
Place: New York, New York
Source Publication Code: 9873.1
Primary Immigrant: Hitzemann, Ernestine
Annotation: Port and date of arrival. Based on Passenger Lists of Vessels Arriving at New York, National Archives Microfilm Publication M237.
Source Bibliography: WOLFERT, MARION. German Immigrants: Lists of Passengers Bound from Bremen to New York, 1868-1871, with Places of Origin. Vol. 4. Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1993. 198p.
Page: 71
This might match with the entry in the IGI, she is 14 almost 15? The year of immigration is about right. Wonder who she was traveling with. More searching!!
No other Hitzemann in that search.
Danke nochmal, Andrea
Dear Andrea,
Was perusing and came across following:
Valley of the Upper Maumee River
Madison Wis.: Brant & Fuller, 1889
Biography of a Charles Myers that mentions his marriage 11 Nov. 1851 to a Sophia Carolina Hitzemann* born 28 September 1831 at Hobbenzen,Germany. Sophia came to this country with her mother at the age of thirteen, her father Christian Hitzemann having emigrated six years previously.
Mentions that sinse 1862 Mr. Myers was had a livery business at Nos. 112 and 114 Webster Street. (Fort Wayne, Indiana)
Mentions six children and their names. Various other types of business and employment and that he had also made his home for a short time in Adams County Indiana.
Charles Myers born Vintheim, Prussia. Pioneer settler of Fort Wayne. His family also associated with Preble Township, Adams County, Indiana.
(Volume II page 289)
Dear Andrea,
Did you see this site?
http://www.genealogienetz.de/reg/NSAC/SLP/probst/OSB/Hitzemann.html#top
Families in Probsthagen
Barbie-Lew