Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 48, Eintrag 34

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Dear List Readers,

I have for 3 years researched HEINRICH RAMMING VON REIDKIRCHEN, (Henry Ramming), * 4 May 1822 in Nimburgh, Austria , + 1862/63 in New Orleans while a Major in the Union Army. Heinrich was an Austrian Army Officer who later fought in the Schleswig-Holstein Army as a Captain in 1850. (He was on the defeated side.) He arrived in New York on 21 May 1851 on the bargue NoordAmerika from Hamburg. He was an editor of a newspaper, Der Demokrat, in Davenport, Iowa until 1861 when he joined the Union Army.

My problem is this; I can find no record of emigration or passage in any Hamburg Passenger Lists or other German documents. Can you help me please.

Thank you, Harlan Nieuwsma from Iowa

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Hello Jim,

Thank you for your response. Yes, I reviewed the book, "Germans in America" by Glazier/Filby a few years ago. It is available in the Davenport Public Library about 70 miles from my home. The reason I was looking for the German or Austrian records was to determine his family and military background. I know that he fought on the side of the Schleswig-Holstein revolutionary army which lost in that war in 1850. I suspect that he left Hamburg in an attempt to escape the authorities in power at the time. That may be one of the reasons that he does not appear on the Hamburg Passenger Lists of 1851. The record of the "NoordAmerika" when it arrived in the New York in May 1851 shows "H. Ramming, f(female)", but all dates including his birthday are correct, so I assumed that either a mistake was made or that he left in disguise. At any rate, it remains a mystery to me. If you have any further thoughts, I would welcome them.

Thanks for your interest,

Harlan

Dear List Readers,

I have for 3 years researched HEINRICH RAMMING VON REIDKIRCHEN, (Henry Ramming), * 4 May 1822 in Nimburgh, Austria , + 1862/63 in New Orleans while a Major in the Union Army. Heinrich was an Austrian Army Officer who later fought in the Schleswig-Holstein Army as a Captain in 1850. (He was on the defeated side.) He arrived in New York on 21 May 1851 on the bargue NoordAmerika from Hamburg. He was an editor of a newspaper, Der Demokrat, in Davenport, Iowa until 1861 when he joined the Union Army.

My problem is this; I can find no record of emigration or passage in any Hamburg Passenger Lists or other German documents. Can you help me please.

Thank you, Harlan Nieuwsma from Iowa

Hello:

There is a problem with obtaining passage records on the German side for Hamburg and Bremen. They were the major departure points for Germans immigrating (US or elsewhere). Many - if not most - of the records on the German side have been destroyed or lost.

On the American side of the ocean, the arrival records have been partially reconstructed and published.

"Germans to America - List of Passengers Arriving at U.S. Ports", edited by Ira A. Glazier and William P. Filby, Scholarly Resources, Inc., Wilmington, DE, copyrighted 1990, Library of Congress # 929.3'08931-dc19; # 184.G3G38 1988.

There are many volumes with records listed by year. The volumes are at the Wisconsin State Historical Society here in Madison, Wisconsin. I know the collection is in other libraries and societies around the country. If is not available in Iowa, it might be worth a trip to Madison.

Best Regards!

Jim Danielsen
Stoughton, WI

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Hello Harlan,
    Many young men of draft age left Hannover and other German states during the
19th century to avoid the draft or for other reasons. Since these men could
not receive permission to emigrate, they left the country ilegally, so there
were no official records of their departures.
    My great grandfather is said to have left Hannover (then part of Prussia) ca
1870 by stowing away on a vessel bound for the USA. I have never found any
documentation of his departure from Hannover or his arrival in the USA. I did
come into posession of a copy of part of a letter he wrote to his sister in
which he states that he arrived in New York on 27 December, 1870. None of the
records of immigrant arrivals show a ship arriving in New York on that day. I
assume he may have stowed away on a cargo vessel.
    Don Roddy
    Jacksonville, Florida

----- Message from hssjd@peoplepc.com ---------

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I wonder if that's why I can't find my paternal great-grandfather's immigration even though I can find his older brothers' and even a cousin's? He was the youngest and 24 when he arrived (known because he married his sweetheart who was already here almost immediately). Would that still have been of an age to be drafted?

I know that's why my maternal grandfather came, but he did so legally, all permissions in order, but he was not yet 18. His father said that he had lost two sons to wars and did not want to lose another to a warring nation. Also, it was the 20th century when he came -- right after World War I -- so perhaps things were different then? He had been a cabin boy with the herring fleets in the North Sea and had a narrow escape when a bomb dropped near the ship failed to explode. I guess that was enough for great-grandpa to send his last son at home to America to join his sister and brother already here.

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Hi Loretta,
    I cannot say for sure, but it seems highly likely. I believe they used a
"Lottery" system to determine who would be drafted, and it would not be
unreasonable to assume some men were lucky enough to escape the draft for
several years.
    Perhaps there is someone else on the list who is more knowledgeble about the
Hannover & Prussian draft particulars.
Don Roddy

----- Message from krumbar@comcast.net ---------

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My great-grandfather Martin Lynch -- who came from England and spoke the Queen's English -- was also listed as a female on the ship's passenger list, although he was accompanied by his wife and six of his eight children! We have also found several mistakes of the same type in Census Records. If the rest matches, believe it! - M.

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Hello,

What is the name of the person you look for? If these ancestors departed
home country WWI era or after... perhaps Steven Morse website could help find.

Google "Steven Morse"......find site...

If there is any chance a N.Y. arrival... Might try search using name of hometown. Since you have
found relatives of this person you search for... Try broad search using the name of the town.

Try broad search using just first name....and town... or first name and beginning letters of town
you suspect these persons are from...

Try... search using nationality, age, given name and sex.....

Try...searching name of ship the relatives arrived on...Perhaps the lost relative took same ship ...different year..

Try....search using approximate age.. and first name...

Try......any and all options you might think of..

Last chance look.... look for hints using census data.... perhaps there are neighbors who may have come from
same area.... If I were taking the big step of relocating to a whole other country...... I think I would ask my family, distant cousins, aunts, uncles, neighbors if they might know someone who settled in that place...

Put yourself in their shoes.......What would you do? Wouldn't you be more confortable moving to a place whre you might have something in common with someone? My cousins...cousin...knows ...someone who was a neighbor to a cousin who is from where I am from......

Well..

Barbie-Lew
a.k.a. Silly Goose

It might be that you never find the person you most want to find.

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Hi barbie,
  Thank you for responding to me about my grandfather. I am having such a hard time finding the town he is from on the immagration papers it says bohemia austria but my aunt says morvia can you help me find this town I know he left hte port of Berman in 1902 in the spring and arrived here on the barbarossa in new york in may of 1902 but I can't find him at ellis or anywhere else. I have tried to locate the Barbarossa's passinger list but the ship was taken opver and used during ww ii as a battle ship I haven't been able to find anyone with the records.
   
  I can track all of my relitives very easy here in the u. s. but once the boat docked here it was as they never existed. what do I do??
   
  Thanks for your help
  Debbie Ramsey
  ramseys_little_monster@yahoo.com
  
Hello,

What is the name of the person you look for? If these ancestors departed
home country WWI era or after... perhaps Steven Morse website could help find.

Google "Steven Morse"......find site...

If there is any chance a N.Y. arrival... Might try search using name of hometown. Since you have
found relatives of this person you search for... Try broad search using the name of the town.

Try broad search using just first name....and town... or first name and beginning letters of town
you suspect these persons are from...

Try... search using nationality, age, given name and sex.....

Try...searching name of ship the relatives arrived on...Perhaps the lost relative took same ship ...different year..

Try....search using approximate age.. and first name...

Try......any and all options you might think of..

Last chance look.... look for hints using census data.... perhaps there are neighbors who may have come from
same area.... If I were taking the big step of relocating to a whole other country...... I think I would ask my family, distant cousins, aunts, uncles, neighbors if they might know someone who settled in that place...

Put yourself in their shoes.......What would you do? Wouldn't you be more confortable moving to a place whre you might have something in common with someone? My cousins...cousin...knows ...someone who was a neighbor to a cousin who is from where I am from......

Well..

Barbie-Lew
a.k.a. Silly Goose

It might be that you never find the person you most want to find.

From: krumbar@comcast.net> To: hannover-l@genealogy.net> Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 17:55:06 -0500> Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 48, Eintrag 34> > I wonder if that's why I can't find my paternal great-grandfather's > immigration even though I can find his older brothers' and even a cousin's? > He was the youngest and 24 when he arrived (known because he married his > sweetheart who was already here almost immediately). Would that still have > been of an age to be drafted?> > I know that's why my maternal grandfather came, but he did so legally, all > permissions in order, but he was not yet 18. His father said that he had > lost two sons to wars and did not want to lose another to a warring nation. > Also, it was the 20th century when he came -- right after World War I -- so > perhaps things were different then? He had been a cabin boy with the herring > fleets in the North Sea and had a narrow escape when a bomb dropped near the > ship failed to

explode. I guess that was enough for great-grandpa to send > his last son at home to America to join his sister and brother already here.> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 4:42 PM> Subject: Re: [HN] Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 48, Eintrag 34> > > Hello Harlan,> Many young men of draft age left Hannover and other German states> during the> 19th century to avoid the draft or for other reasons. Since these men > could> not receive permission to emigrate, they left the country ilegally, so there> were no official records of their departures.> > ______________________________________________> > Hannover-L mailing list> Hannover-L@genealogy.net> hannover-l - genealogy.net

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Hi Cactus Flower and others,
good intentions for 2008 could be:
We shall never more use such topics/references in our emails like
"Re: [HN] Hannover-L Nachrichtensammlung, Band 48, Eintrag 34".

Best wishes for 2008
Nikolaus (Ordemann)