Liebe Listenmitglieder,
bitte melden, wer Vorfahren aus DERZ hat!
Für die Erstellung einer Dorfchronik suchen wir alles, was es über DERZ zu finden gibt, Namen, Daten, Fotos von Personen, Gebäuden etc., Zeitungsartikel, Anekdoten usw.
Liebe Grüße,
Fam. Kuhn
Hallo Frau Kuhn,
eine Karte, auf der Derz eingezeichnet ist, finden Sie unter
http://www.posselt-landkarten.de/manoeverkarte_08.jpg
Gru�,
Maximilian Riedel
PS: Sie haben nicht zuf�llig jemanden mit dem Nachnamen BRAUER unter Ihren Ahnen?
Hallo,
weiß jemand, ob eine Dorfchronik von DERZ erstellt wurde?
Ich erhielt nachfolgende Anfrage bzgl. MATTERN und SCHLÖSSER in Derz.
Literaturhinweis:
Die Familie Matern in Raunau und Woppen im Ermland von Matern Georg (1933)
Derz in Manöverkarte:
Wayback Machine
Kirchliche Trauungen im Ermland – AGOFF
Erfasste Kirchspiele
Bischofsburg, Kreis Rössel ab 1682
Groß Bössau, Kreis Rössel ab 1700
Groß Kleeberg, Kreis Allenstein 1723–1753
Groß Köllen, Kreis Rössel ab 1747
Groß Lemkendorf, Kreis Allenstein ab 1698
Groß Ramsau, Kreis Allenstein 1734–1900
Wartenburg, Kreis Allenstein 1691–1901
(Hinweis: Das Kirchenbuch mit den Trauungen der Jahre 1765–1797 gilt als verschollen. Die hier aufgenommenen Angaben sind dem vorhandenen alphabetischen Trauungsindex entnommen und nach Möglichkeit mit Geburts-/Taufeinträgen der erhaltenen Kirchenbücher abgeglichen; siehe Spalte Bemerkungen.)
Wuttrienen, Kreis Allenstein 1686–1765
Gruß
Andreas (Meininger)
Hello, Andreas.
Wow, fast reply!
Thank you for the link to the Matern book, I did not have that on my radar.
Also, my Matern in Ermland was a Joseph Matern and his wife, Elisabeth. They were
from Derz. I had my Great Grandfather August W. Mattern born there on 29 Mar 1944,
with parents NN Mattern and Elisabeth Schlösser (based on August’s death in Hamburg
in 1918 on his death certificate, presumably the information was provided by his wife
after his death or if provided by him on entry to the hospital (it looks like he passed on in
the hospital) perhaps in his old age or infirmity or the hospital mixing it up, his parents
were listed as NN Mattern and Elisabeth Schlösser, and that his parents last lived in Derz.
But when I found that there was an Elisabeth Matern, age 63, who died in Derz on
28 Mar 1863 and buried there on 31 Mar 1863, with survivors listed as husband Joseph
Matern and one son August Matern, the son being 19 years old, that comported with who
my Great-Grandparents should be and then I looked to see if perhaps other Materns in the
area might also have another man with that name and a wife Elisabeth. That didn’t happen.
I could not confirm that my Great-Grandfather was born there in the records as the birth
records for that time are missing, evidently. Unfortunately, but there were death records and
I found several children of Joseph and Elisabeth dying young in that time frame. I also found
a record of another Matern (Mathias) who was survived by three adult children, one of whom was Joseph, so I think that is my Great-Great-Great-Grandfather and his kids. I still have a lot of
research to do, which is why I am doing this sort of ‚deep dive‘ into the various records here
and around here. I also go and put up what I can on Geneteka for their index if possible.
The bad thing is I found no evidence that Elisabeth had the surname Schlösser, but that in
the children’s death records, many times Elisabeth had the maiden name of Grudzienski,
and that a marriage for Elisabeth Grudzienski and Joseph Matern was in 1827, he was from
Derz and she from Gr. Cronau. So I am presuming that the Hamburg Death info was wrong
his mother’s maiden name and that she was Elisabeth Grudzienski and not Elisabeth Schlösser.
I also found no real Elisabeth Schlösser in the records I’ve seen so far in the Gross Lemkendorf
region for that church (St. Nicolai) to be associated with a Matern, Mattern, or Materna.
Elisabeth died in 1863 and I don’t know where Joseph remarried, but he did and his wife was an
Apollonia . She died at age 61 in 1883, and Joseph had died in early 1875 in Derz, with the record only saying that Apollonia survived (so I think by then his son had already moved on and was already in the Samland, where he would then marry my Great-Grandmother in 1877. Unfortunately, no actual marriage record seems to be around). Since my Grandfather’s oldest brother was born at the end of 1875, and he was never told to be of another father, I think perhaps that also confirms, as much as currently possible, that Derz was left behind sometime between 1863 and 1875.
Lastly, there is some evidence (or lack of it, so it supports the idea) that the Materns were really
not from Derz before about the early 1800s or late 1790s, though I think they did come before
1821. I’m still working on that. I think that perhaps I will find a connection to them for the town of
Porwangen, but I don’t have all my reasoning down for that, and some connection to Freudenberg (I only have access to the marriage/engagement records there from 1847-1899). That has to still be worked out somehow.)
Do you mind if during the next few months I get your info off your site and then sometime in the
future (unsure when, as I have a large number of project commitments through next year for sure) get it compiled and maybe printed and give it to the Allen County Public Library? They are in the US and are one of the largest Genealogical libraries in this country. I know they don’t have a ton of good info on Ermland areas or people, so it would definitely be a great idea. I could list you as the author and me as just a compiler/editor (as it were). But I would need some info from you to do that.
I actually have only been looking at records in Ermland to try to pin down the Matern origins since about July of this year.
I am trying to also connect somehow with people who are or should be my relations via DNA on
Ancestry.
Let me know what you think.
Unfortunately I really don’t know that much German, so I can only put together basic sentences and not more complex thoughts.
Kasia
Alfons Dietrichsdorf aus Delmenhost hatte das gesammte Kirchenspiel Groß Lemkendorf in Form von Karteikarten. Leider ist Alfons Dietrichsdorf seit einiger Zeit verstorben. Leider weiß ist nicht was mit der Kartei passiert ist.
Ich habe damals den Hinweis auf Herrn Dietrichsdorf aus dem Bibliothek des Ermland Vereins bekommen. Die Bibliothek existiert auch nicht mehr. Der Bestand wird in der Martin-Opitz Bibliothek weiter geführt.
Gruß Michael
Hallo Michael,
von Alfons Dietrich gibt es folgende Veröffentlichung in:
Altpreußische Geschlechterkunde Familienarchiv
Verein für Familienforschung in Ost- und Westpreußen e.V.
Band 42
2020 Hamburg
Im Selbstverlag des Vereins
Seiten 85-106: Die Familie Ziermann aus dem Kirchspiel Groß Lemkendorf, Kr. Allenstein
(auch Cierman, Viermann, Cirman, Cirmann, Czirman, Cyerman, Zierman)
Herausgegeben von Alfons Dietrichsdorf
Die Ausarbeitung trägt das Datum Delmenhorst 1994. Herr Dietrichsdorf, An der Bahn 6, 27751 Delmenhorst, schreibt am 18.2.1994: „Mit großem Interesse las ich in der APG NF, 41. Jg. (Bd. 23), S. 570ff. Ihren Aufruf zur Mitarbeit bei Ihrer „Ahnenreihensammlung Ost- und Westpreußen“. Gerne unterstütze ich Ihr Vorhaben, indem ich Ihnen eine Fotokopie meiner unlängst fertiggestellten Arbeit „Die Familie Ziermann u.s.w. aus dem Kirchspiel Groß Lemkendorf, Kr. Allenstein (Ostpreußen)“ überreiche. Diese Arbeit ist zur Aufnahme in Ihre Ahnenreihensammlung gewiss geeignet.“…
Gruß
Andreas (Meininger)
Hallo Andreas,
danke für die Info über die Familie Ziermann. Hat Jemand den Band 42 des Vereins für Familienforschung in Ost-und Westpreußen und könnte mir evtl. direkt an meine Mail-Adresse diese Seiten zukommen lassen?
Ich habe auch eine Ahnin Ciesmann wo ich feststecke:
Ciesmann Anna, rk., (Name wird erwähnt bei Taufe Tochter Anna Ciuka 1758 in Vierzighuben Ksp. Groß Lemkendorf, dort geb.„Ciesmanorum“)
*?
† nach 1758 in Vierzighuben, ‡ … in Groß Lemkendorf, Krs.Allenstein.
oo vor 1732 wo? mit Ciuka (Czuka) Jacob, * 15.05.1702 in Vierzighuben, † 15.01.1762 in Vierzighuben.
Es wäre schön, wenn ich die obigen Seiten 85-106 bekommen könnte oder noch die fehlenden Daten ergänzen.
Vielen Dank im voraus und noch schöne Feiertage.
Viele Grüße
Angela Deuschle
