My paternal Grandmother and her forebears had lived in the Gross Mausdorf area of West Prussia for centuries, as far as I can tell. What happened to the German population after the province was handed to Poland (the Polish Corridor) after World War I?
~ E. Glenn Krock, Canada
re:
of West Prussia for centuries, as far as I can tell. What happened to the
German population after the province was handed to Poland (the Polish
Corridor)
Adalbert Goertz responds >>>>>>>>>>>>
They either fled or were driven out. Now they call this ethnic cleansing.
Hello Liste,
Also interesting to know is that in Gross Mausdorf (Westpreussen), now
called Myszewo, the old Evangelische church from the year 1332 has
changed into Polish Catholic after WWII.
The graves in the graveyard are almost all exclusively Polish and past
WWII!
What happened to the old German(family)graves??? I wondered during my
visit in 2002.
I asked the Evangelisches Zentralarchiv in Berlin.
They replied:
Nach dem Ende des 2. Weltkrieges entfiel die Zustandigkeit des Ev.
Oberkirchenrats bzw. der Nachfolgebehorde fuer dieses Gebiet. Uber die
heutige Nutzung der ehemaligen evangelischen Kirchen und die Belegung
der Friedhofe ist uns deshalb nichts bekannt.
Moreover during my visit in this area I found only 1 native German
speaking old woman at Krebsfelde (Rakowiska). She survived the horror
after WWII and still lives there; all the other people live in postwar
WWII Germany. She still has contact with them every year.
With kind regards,
Bas Grabowsky, the Netherlands
re:
What happened to the old German(family)graves??? I wondered during my
visit in 2002.
Adalbert Goertz responds >>>>>>>>>>>>
They often stole the gravestones and used them for stepping stones or
building material. The graves disappeared due to neglect and vandalism.
After all, this was old Polish land and German names would have been
emberassing.
Old, marble grave stones were also shipped-off by rail to the USSR.
They could also be re-cycled for use in Catholic cemeteries. I
suspect that it was the intrinsic value of the stones and the great
demand for headstones c.1945 that was the prime motive. After all,
neither Poles nor Soviets denied the existence of the German
population.
John (Rohde).
re:
demand for headstones c.1945 that was the prime motive. After all,
neither Poles nor Soviets denied the existence of the German
population.
Adalbert Goertz responds >>>>>>>>>>>>
They didnt? They could have fooled me.
You must be kidding, nearly all German graves were vandalized and destoyed.
Don't try to whitewash what happened.
Hubert Grunwald
Sorry but I know for a fact that gravestones were taken back to the
USSR and that some were re-used in Catholic cemetaries. I have spoken
to people who saw them.
I am not sure how that fact constitutes a whitewash.
BTW are you of the Neustadt or Rahmel Grunwalds? I have Grunwald
ancestors back to 1660.
Cordially,
John (Rohde).
Let's just say that their existence on Polish soil proved
embarrassing to the claims that the land had always been
lived in by Poles and was Poland all along. Any references
to German words whether in a cemetery, on a building or on
an old map had to be removed and changed to Polish. As I
have written here earlier the only German words I could find
in my own home town were the word Elbing in the cast iron
sewer lids all over town. These could not be carved out and
to replace them was simply too expensive. The cemeteries
were simply gone. History was simply reinvented.
Fred
4788 Corian Court
Naples, FL 34114
239-775-7838; 609-284-6007 (cell)
FredRump@earthlink.net
"The road to hell was paved with good intentions."
In Danzig at least, the Polish authorities had pursued a paradoxical
practice of both celebrating Danzig's Medieval and Early Modern past
but also commemorating the massacre of its population in 1308 as an
act of German genocide.
While every effort was expended to stamp an entirely Polish
character on the former German territories, I have yet to encounter
any official Polish publication that denied the existence of a German
population in the former Polish Prussia, let alone the territories
lost in 1945. As most of the people in these areas know perfectly
well that that they or their parents or grandparents came from Lwow or
some such place, there would be little point.
That those territories were somehow rightfully theirs, due to their
pre-German Slav populations or the former realm of the Piast Kings or
just as reparation, is prevalent, its true, but no Pole that I have
ever met has claimed that it was, "a land without people for a people
without a land".
Without a Lutheran population to tend or fill the cemetaries, in
Danzig at least, they were put to use by the Catholics - along with
much of their ornament.
Cordially,
John (Rohde).
In Danzig at least, the Polish authorities had pursued a paradoxical
practice of both celebrating Danzig's Medieval and Early Modern past
but also commemorating the massacre of its population in 1308 as an
act of German genocide.
Yes of course and at the castle in Marienburg the guides
still give the official old (Communist) government line of how
the Knights did nothing but rape and eradicate the Prussian
people. The intonation is that even these were Polish at the
time.
While every effort was expended to stamp an entirely Polish
character on the former German territories, I have yet to encounter
any official Polish publication that denied the existence of a German
population in the former Polish Prussia, let alone the territories
lost in 1945. As most of the people in these areas know perfectly
well that that they or their parents or grandparents came from Lwow or
some such place, there would be little point.
Don't say that too loud as that type of conversation is only
held at the family level. 
What Poland admits to is a multi-
cultural and even-handed way of life over the centuries.
People from all countries of Europe had settled on their land
to mix with the native Polish population. It's "never" the
other way around, of Poles coming from far away to settle in
this same land to mingle with those people who were
already there. Show me one Polish source which tells us
that Copernicus had four native German grandparents for
example.
That those territories were somehow rightfully theirs, due to their
pre-German Slav populations or the former realm of the Piast Kings or
just as reparation, is prevalent, its true, but no Pole that I have
ever met has claimed that it was, "a land without people for a people
without a land".
In reality we had a pre-German, pre-Polish, pre-Slavic land
which was populated by various Baltic tribes. I do not think
the Baltic peoples were Slavic or were they? Polish history
is now being re-written by modern scholars in a non-
nationalist style and closely reflects reality but differences
still exist with how German historians would write. At least a
rational conversation is being held. The problem is with
popular history which is ingrained in a not well educated
population. I've had wonderful conversations with educated
Poles who now live in the area of Masuria but their history
was still formed at the grammar school level. What they
learned as children is still the only 'truth' they know. This is
pervasive among the Polish population in general. It is a
result of nationalism and 50 years of communist philosophy.
Without a Lutheran population to tend or fill the cemetaries, in
Danzig at least, they were put to use by the Catholics - along with
much of their ornament.
I found some head stones from cemeteries in Danzig in a
courtyard at the Marienburg. One of them was a Rump who
died in 1648. I guess somebody tried to save a few stones
and moved them over there. The cemeteries and memorials
I found were mostly WWI military ones. These are of the
soldiers who died fighting the Russians and the Russians
are still a bit further down on the popularity scale then the
Germans.
I know the problem of German cemeteries all over the place
must have been a real hassle for the government. In the
northern part of East Prussia it was no problem for the
Russians to simply remove all traces of anything German
but religion sort of got in the way in Poland. There were still
crosses there. But maintenance was also prohibitive and as
in Germany old cemeteries are simply made into parks with
a memorial stone set somewhere to remind of the
consecrated ground. It's a shame that they are so cavalierly
removed in either country.
Fred
4788 Corian Court
Naples, FL 34114
239-775-7838; 609-284-6007 (cell)
FredRump@earthlink.net
"The road to hell was paved with good intentions."