Wegen Filme aus Leipzig

In a message dated 9/20/2001 9:25:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
goertz@oldcolo.com writes:

   Bush ordered the airliner to be shot down near Pittsburgh (hush-hush)

........and what would you have done, if you were in his shoes?.......and are
you inferring that the order was carried out or do you believe some brave men
aboard that plane attempted to stop the terrorists plan?............just
curious........

Renee Ponto

Folks,

I've received private mail which expressed anger at the sentiments
expressed in that signature. Several people have left the list
because of it.

It angers me personally as I'm at heart a Pennsylvanian who
transplanted across the Delaware to NJ. I have the utmost respect
for the possible action taken by ordinary people who more them
likely dove that plane into the ground in order to save others. They
heard about NY and did what they thought was right even while
looking death in the face. What more can we ask of a person?

I've asked for the removal of that signature line and if it doesn't go
away, the author will.

I've been involved on the net with mailing lists and usenet since
1985 and have never before enforced my own feelings or
sensibilities as I'm a firm believer in free speech for everyone. I hate
censorship as much as I despise the above line but in this case I
will finally have to enforce a basic rule of civility. Those people on
that plane do not deserve to be dishonored. Let's leave it at that.

Fred Rump
OW-Preussen-L founder and listowner

26 Warren St., Beverly, NJ 08010
609-386-6846 FredRump@earthlink.net

Fred,

this is the e-mail I mailed to Mr. Goertz immediately when I saw his
signature:

Herr Goertz,

bin ich froh, dass die "Airforce" nur das vierte Flugzeug abgeschossen hat
und dass die anderen drei Flugzeuge ihr Ziel erreichten.

So interpretiere ich Ihre Bemerkung.

Dr. Elke Hedstrom
622 Perdido Dr.
Garland, TX 75043

elke.hedstrom@home.com

In English:
Am I glad that the airforce only shot down the fourth plane and that the
other three planes reached their destiny.

That's how I interpret your remark.

After I mailed Mr. Goertz that message the signature message changed from

Bush ordered the airliner to be shot down near Pittsburgh. YES to

> > (hush-hush)

And I am left still wondering - what kind of ............ person would make
a remark like that. Am I glad that I am not the only one who tried to figure
out what is going on here. Honestly, I still do not understand what Mr.
Goertz is trying to tell us.

Regards,

Elke Hedstrom
elke.hedstrom@home.com

I probably would have done the same thing, BUT I would not hush-hush it.
THAT is my point. ANY president should be accountable for himself.
He owes at least this much to the victims.

This interpretation is incorrect. It is the hush-hush that I want to
point out. If he did not order all planes to be shot down which
were flying to Washington DC without authorization, I like to
know it. This order was clearly publicised over the media (only once and
never repeated). Let us not be naive.

This does not make sense at all. Accountable to himself? Owes it to the
victims? What victims are we talking about here? Are we to believe the
President is accountable for the victims in New York and Washington,DC? What
we have here, a personal dislike of George W. Bush is clouding the mind of
the originator of stupid tag lines. I also ask the moderator to stop this
nonsense.

Johann

I probably would have done the same thing, BUT I would not hush-hush it.
THAT is my point. ANY president should be accountable for himself.
He owes at least this much to the victims.

In a message dated 9/20/2001 9:25:27 PM Central Daylight Time,
goertz@oldcolo.com writes:
>
> Bush ordered the airliner to be shot down near Pittsburgh (hush-hush)
>
........and what would you have done, if you were in his shoes?.......and

are

you inferring that the order was carried out or do you believe some brave

men

Only a sick mind can blow a Rumor out of proportion. Why down you look
outside and take in the view of the wonderful scenery around you. This is
more productive unless of course, there is something wrong with your genes.
There you can not be helped.

Johann

This interpretation is incorrect. It is the hush-hush that I want to
point out. If he did not order all planes to be shot down which
were flying to Washington DC without authorization, I like to
know it. This order was clearly publicised over the media (only once and
never repeated). Let us not be naive.

Fred,

this is the e-mail I mailed to Mr. Goertz immediately when I saw his
signature:

Herr Goertz,

bin ich froh, dass die "Airforce" nur das vierte Flugzeug abgeschossen hat
und dass die anderen drei Flugzeuge ihr Ziel erreichten.

So interpretiere ich Ihre Bemerkung.

Dr. Elke Hedstrom
622 Perdido Dr.
Garland, TX 75043

elke.hedstrom@home.com

In English:
Am I glad that the airforce only shot down the fourth plane and that the
other three planes reached their destiny.

That's how I interpret your remark.

After I mailed Mr. Goertz that message the signature message changed from

Bush ordered the airliner to be shot down near Pittsburgh. YES to
> > > (hush-hush)

And I am left still wondering - what kind of ............ person would

make

a remark like that. Am I glad that I am not the only one who tried to

figure

The president has publicly explained that the vice-president
counseled him on the subject and that such a decision was made.
The matter has been discussed often and all over the place. THere
is no secret about it and no one denies it.

The thing is anyone can check the time schedules of the
kidnappers. The actions were timed almost simultaneously. Just
as there was no time to shoot down the two jets which crashed
into the WTC and the Pentagon, despite the fact that all these
planes were visible to radar, there was also no time to intercept the
plane which had just turned around from a planned flight at
Cleveland. The pilots asked for a new flight plan and within a few
minutes were over Pittsburgh and went down. Those of us who
were glued to the TV saw it all happen.

No one has yet reported any jets intercepting an airliner even
though the order had been given to do so if more planes came into
the DC vicinity. Bush gave a order for 'just in case' as no one knew
how many more attacks were planned.

I did not mean to argue this here but I also don't appreciate having
our president labelled as a liar.

Fred

26 Warren St., Beverly, NJ 08010
609-386-6846 FredRump@earthlink.net

O.K., my .02 worth.

I do not have the experience of refugees from
Ost Preu�en or the Holocaust. But, through the
military, I do have experience of rumors and
rumor control.

In any military basic training, #1, do not listen
to rumors, do not repeat rumors and do not
begin rumors.

The reason for the above, out of ten people,
maybe one will understand what you are saying
or the meaning you are trying to convey. Much
like the game children play as they pass either a
word or sentence through a line of other children,
the end result is not what it started out to be.
Same with one persons thoughts or something
"they have heard."

Bottom line, if it's not in black and white, it is
suspect! And TV coverage is not exactly a
black and white issue. It is meant to draw viewers
and ratings.

Regards,
Robert Lipprandt
(South Florida)
An X-Viet Nam debacle veteran

As this is a Prussian list, would it be too much to ask from members a
little self-discipline?
  As for what is wrong with anyones genes, as we are on this list we
presumably have a few in common. Let us use the ones for
self-control, forbearance courtesy from now on.
  John (Rohde).