Dear Listies,
Please forgive me if this is double posting. Somehow whether I liked it or not.... My email program switched over to Windows Live...and the format a little different.
Hi Barbie-Lew,
I'm not familiar with the Luker or Behrens families; however Regina Twenhafel and Henry J. Welp are my great-grandparents. Henry's parents were Henry Welp (1833-1902) and Eliza Kleiboeker (1835-1905). Henry Welp has been a brick wall for me for many years. Records indicate he was from Bielefeld, Germany; however searches of several churches in that area haven't turned up his birth/baptismal information. He arrived in St. Louis, Missouri in 1854 and lived there until 1863 when he moved his family to Washington County, Illinois. There were other Welps who settled in the St. Louis area, but I haven't yet found a connection. There is also a Welp family who settled in Iowa and another in Indiana. I've not found any connection between these Welp families. I'm very interested to hear any information you have on Minna Welp-Behrens.
Dear Joel,
This is what I digest...of
Minna Welp..
BIRTH:
1. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1880 United States Census, Copyright (c) 2000, 2002 FamilySearch (TM) Internet Genealogy Service, October 20, 2007, FHL Film 1254723; National Archives Film T9-0723; Page 369B First Enumeration, Family History Library, 35 N West Temple Street, Salt Lake City, Utah 84150 USA.
CENSUS:
2. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1880 United States Census, Copyright (c) 2000, 2002 FamilySearch (TM) Internet Genealogy Service, October 20, 2007, FHL Film 1254723; National Archives Film T9-0723; Page 369B First Enumeration, Family History Library, 35 N West Temple Street, Salt Lake City, Utah 84150 USA.
"Extract: 1880 United States Census
Census Place: St. Louis, St. Louis, Missouri
Source: FHL Film 1254723; National Archives Film T9-0723; Page 369B First Enumeration
Household:
Rel Sex Marr Race Age Birthplace
Carl BEHRENS
Self Male M W 42 HAN <1838>
Occ: Brick Mason Fa: HAN Mo: HAN
Minna BEHRENS*****
Wife Female M W 37 PRUS <1842>
Occ: Keeping House Fa: PRUS Mo: PRUS
Bertha BEHRENS-Luker <1869> (I think?)
Dau Female S W 10 MO
Occ: At School Fa: PRUS Mo: PRUS
Edward BEHRENS
Son Male S W 9 MO
Occ: At School Fa: PRUS Mo: PRUS
Lena BEHRENS
Dau Female S W 5 MO
Fa: PRUS Mo: PRUS
Clara BEHRENS
Dau Female S W 1 MO
Fa: PRUS Mo: PRUS."
DEATH:
3. Missouri Death Certificate, #30322,
Missouri State Archives.
Final Address:
1516 Destrehan St.,
St. Louis, Missouri.
Informant:
Bertha Lucker*** Bertha Behrens Luker?****** SEE BELOW.....
1516 Destrehan St.,
St. Louis, Missouri.
Missouri Death Certificate gives Minna Behrens (nee Welp) fathers name as ......... Henry Welp...........I think....Take a look.
............................
Bertha BEHRENS...<1869>
CONFIRMATION:
1. Compiled by Gloria Dettleff © 2004. All Rights Reserved
, Confirmands - Bethlehem Lutheran Church 1870 - 1897
(http://genealogyinstlouis.accessgenealogy.com/BethConfirm1897.htm), Bethlehem Lutheran Church, 2153 Salisbury St., St. Louis, MO 63107.
DEATH:
2. Missouri Death Certificate, Missouri Death Certificate# 6868, Missouri State Archives.
Death Place: 9825 Cambramia Drive, Hathaway Meadows, St. Louis, Missouri
Usual Residence: 1516 Destrehan St., St. Louis, Missouri.****
I think address matches Minna Welp Behrens with father listed as Henry...
Something else funny...
I know there were FELDHAUS on Destrehan St...
circa 1890 city directory...thought I don't yet connect the Destrehan Feldhaus with my Feldhaus...(Mom's family) who lived on Kemp.
Warmest,
Barbie-Lew
So I have much work to do.
If you find my logic incorrect...Ask me a question. Or let me know where the conflict in data is... because I tell you...sometimes you have to look at something twice... do you know what I mean?
Dear Joel,
HARMON LUCKER/ HERMAN HENRY LUKER??? m. Bertha Beharns???
Deduced from following...
BIRTH: CENSUS:
Source:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1880 United States Census, Copyright (c) 2000, 2002 FamilySearch (TM) Internet Genealogy Service, January 2, 2007, FHL Film 1254233; National Archives Film T9-0233; Page 69B, Family History Library, 35 N West Temple Street, Salt Lake City, Utah 84150 USA.
"Extract: 1880 United States Census
Census Place: Olive, Madison, Illinois
Source: FHL Film 1254233; National Archives Film T9-0233; Page 69B
Household:
Rel Sex Marr Race Age Birthplace
Anton LUCKER
Self Male M W 41 PRUSSIA
Occ: Farmer Fa: PRUSSIA Mo: PRUSSIA
Anna LUCKER - nee (FINKE???)
Wife Female M W 36 PRUSSIA
Occ: Keeping House Fa: PRUSSIA Mo: PRUSSIA
Caroline LUCKER
(not same Caroline m. H. Pieper..but perhaps a cousin)
Dau Female S W 17 IL
Occ: At Home Fa: PRUSSIA Mo: PRUSSIA
John LUCKER
Son Male S W 13 IL
Occ: At Home Fa: PRUSSIA Mo: PRUSSIA
Edward LUCKER
Son Male S W 11 IL
Occ: At Home Fa: PRUSSIA Mo: PRUSSIA
Harman LUCKER (BERTHA BEHRENS HUSBAND??)
Son Male S W 9 IL
Occ: At Home Fa: PRUSSIA Mo: PRUSSIA
Mary LUCKER (H. F. PIEPERS WIFE???)
Dau Female S W 7 IL
Occ: At Home Fa: PRUSSIA Mo: PRUSSIA
Sophy LUCKER
Dau Female S W 2 IL
Occ: At Home Fa: PRUSSIA Mo: PRUSSIA
Henry LUCKER
Son Male S W 10M IL
Fa: PRUSSIA Mo: PRUSSIA
William MILLER
Other Male S W 27 PRUSSIA
Occ: Laborer Fa: PRUSSIA Mo: PRUSSIA."
DEATH: HERMAN H. LUKER
5. Missouri Death Certificate, Missouri Death Certificate # 32535, Missouri State Archives.
BIRTHPLACE: WORDEN, ILLINOIS
FATHER: Anton Luker
MOTHER: Anna Finke
Final Address:
1516 Destrehan St..**********
St. Louis, MIssouri.
INFORMANT: Carl Luker (son)
1516 Destrehan St.*******
Warmest Regards,
Barbie-Lew
P.S. I don't think highly unusual that in the late 19th century/early 20th finding arranged marriages and not uncommon to find cousin marriages......though for the most part the seemingly cousin marriages were usually cousins by marriage.
B
Dear Joel,
Noted Missouri Death Cert.#39913
Therera Welp..born Frohna, Missouri...father Henry Welp..mother Regina Twenhaefel......
Note that Frohna, Perry, Missouri is nearly just over the river to Randolph, Illinois.....
A couple years ago my hubby was working in a little town called Grand Tower, Jackson, Illlinois. There are power-houses nearby Grand Tower and Kincaid, Illinois.
To get there you could take round about way from St. Louis toward Belleville...route 3?? and end up going through Chester, Randolph, Illl ... near Red Bud...a
And even take another route and actually go past a sign "Beaucoup" Creek...near Nashville, Washington, Illinois...which borders
There is even a route past Ste. Genevive, County...on the Missouri side... straight across the river bridge lands you about 35minutes from Grand Tower...
You can also pass the Kaskaskia River in this area of Illinois.
Was taking a drive to area nearby Grand Tower by way of Red Bud, nearby Chester, Illinois..when I stumbled upon marker for little town/villiage/place named "New Hannover", Illinois...thought I think New Hannover crosses into
Monroe County Illinois.
In Monroe county there is also locality called Paderborn.
Surely there must be German or Dutch ties to be found when one finds locality called Paderborn and New Hannover .
Barbie-Lew
Barbie-Lew,
I have several items that belonged to Theresa Welp. She never married and lived with her parents in St. Louis, she was working at the Lutheran Orphan's home at the time of her death. My mother lived with her grandparents and Theresa for a few years during WWII. Here is a quick run down of the Welp family.
(Herman) Heinrich Welp (1833-1902) & (Anna Marie) Eliza Kleiboeker (1835-1905)
children:
Henry J. Welp (1858-1951), married Regina Twenhafel (1860-1942)
John H. Welp (1861-1903), married (1) Helene Wolf, (2) Lena Schuessler (1866-1955)
Wm. F. Welp (1863-1942) married Anna L. Ruwe (1871-1951)
Herman W. Welp (1868-1946), married Emma Breitsprecher
August H. Welp (1873-1947), married Louise Reimann
Clara Welp (1878-1954) married Henry Fedder
All of the children lived in St. Louis except Henry J. who was a teacher in Frohna, Missouri and Herman who lived in Chicago, Illinois.
I have information on the next generations of these families as well if you are interested.
I was born in Steeleville in Randolph County, Illinois and know the area very well. Red Bud and Waterloo were major hubs for German immigrants who then settled in the southwestern part of Illinois. Up near the St. Clair - Washington county line you'll find the town of Darmstadt and that area was heavily settled by people of Hesse-Darmstadt. New Minden is another town in that area named for a German city. I have German ties in Washington, Monroe, St. Clair, Randolph, Jackson and Perry counties in Illinois. With the exception of the family from Hesse-Darmstadt, the remainder came from the northern part of Germany, primarily near Osnabruck, Minden, and the city of Hannover.
I'll go through the data you sent in your other email and compare it to what I have. I have some other data on Welps in St. Louis that I'll share with you after I type them up.
Barbie-Lew,
Do you have information on your Carl Behrens and his wife Minna Welp before 1880? I found the following in the 1870 Census that comes closest to them. Per 1900 and later census they both arrived in 1867 and were married about 1868.
1870 Federal Census, Milwaukee, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin
Dwelling 400, Household 406
Behrens, Charles, age 26, born in Mecklenburg, Laborer
Behrens, Minna, age 20, born in Mecklenburg
Behrens, Christian, age 21, born in Mecklenburg, Carpenter
The majority of the people on this page give their place of birth as Mecklenburg, with others listing Prussia and, of course, Wisconsin.
Joel,
there is a WELP "hotspot" in Lienen and Lengerich (Westphalia). Plenty of
WELP families emigrated to the US.
Hope this helps
Renate