I have been told that some Germans in the 1800s would use their Saint's Day (day of the year) as their "birthday". That is when asked for their birthdate, they would give the Saint's Day and their birth year as their birthdate (instead of their date of birth). I have been told that this might be why some Germans in my family seem to have two sets of birth days.
First of all, have any of you heard this same theory?
Second, if this is true, does anyone know where I might find a list of Saint's Days? My realatives were Catholic.
Thanks for your help,
Friendly Greetings,
German Version from computer translation
Liebe Hanover Listers,
Ich bin erklärt worden, daß einige Deutsche im 1800s Tag ihres Heiligen (Tag des Jahres) als ihr "Geburtstag" verwenden würden. Das ist, wenn es um ihren Geburtstag gebeten wird, würden sie den Tag des Heiligen und ihr Geburt Jahr als ihr Geburtstag geben (anstelle von ihrem Geburtsdatum). Ich bin erklärt worden, daß dieses sein konnte, warum einige Deutsche in meiner Familie scheinen, zwei Sätze Geburt Tage zu haben.
Zuerst von allen, haben irgendwelche von Ihnen diese gleicheTheorie gehört?
Zweitens wenn dieses zutreffend ist, weiß jemand, wo ich eine Liste von Tagen Heiligen finden konnte?
Dank für Ihre Hilfe,
Freundliche Grüße,
Barney Speckman
In earlier days catholic people didn't celebrate their birthday. They only
celebrated the Saint's day. I believe that is why some people did't know
when their birthday was.
I have been told that some Germans in the 1800s would use their Saint's Day (day of the year) as their "birthday". That is when asked for their birthdate, they would give the Saint's Day and their birth year as their birthdate (instead of their date of birth). I have been told that this might be why some Germans in my family seem to have two sets of birth days.
First of all, have any of you heard this same theory? Second, if this is true, does anyone know where I might find a list of Saint's Days? My realatives were Catholic.
It will probably concern the name days. The Kalendarium contains both the names of the most important holy one and blessed one (name from the liturgical calendar, diocese and patronage-holy)
On the day of the yearly, which corresponds to the own name, as name day one celebrates. For example Johannes. The 8. March is the day, which is geweiht Johannes. Who carries now the name Johannes, has thus to 8. March name day.
Thank you for the information. I see from the web site that some names have more than one date which makes this even more interesting. For example, Hermann is listed on four days (7.4, 21.5, 6.8 and 24.9).
I'm about as Catholic as they come. My ancestry is totally German, from
Westfalen, Rheinland, and Hannover. My husband's German side came from
Bavaria. Children may have been born on a certain feastday of a saint and
then take that saint's name. It is more common to find a birthdate and a
baptismal date. With my research in Germany and England, I often cannot find
a birthdate at all, only a baptismal date.
Look here to find the long lists of Saints' days:
Hello Barney,
I have grown up in a Roman Catholic area, called Oldenburger-Münsterland (southern of the Oldenburg province).
When I was still a child, we knew two personal holidays. Birthday(Geburstag) and name day(Namenstag). The Namenstag was the day of Saint Werner. The Geburtstag was always important and got given a little. Not however to the Namenstag. We have forgotten the Namenstag today, but here a URL to a Saint calendar(Heiligenkalender):
Thank you for the Saint's Day web site! Although all my known ancestors were Protestant, in one series of church films I kept running into references to "Simon Judah" day -- and had never found it on any list. "Simon" turned up with "Judah" following - and while the computer translation is laughable, I can now understand who "they" were - and assume that apparently the references had more to do with the onset of winter than anything else!
Barbara Rice
Remstedt Lullman Homfeld "Sevius"? "Lurtke"? in "Hannover"
And I'm about as heathen as they come and can tell you some things never change. While certain exceptions may apply, I doubt any large blanket scenario like the one you originally theorized holds much weight when weighed across the board Barney. More than likely it all comes down the the family or individuals in question, the educations they were or were not afforded, and the over all circumstances they found themselves in (financial, spiritual, degree of stability, etc.), beyond time and place of course. One can imagine the local or regional church authority had a certain say in this also, in what was and wasn't chosen to be recorded in their registers, and this added to any ongoing confusion. Or perhaps lacking the true date, some folks opted to adopt the only other reasonable or known alternative: their saint's day (sounds good to me). If it were truly a widespread practice in the 19th century in Germany, someone offer up what details are known please! Perhaps this will explain why the origins of uncle Otto never fits anything (and I know that guy was no saint).
If it weren't for the increased documentation by the state with the progression of time, many even today might not know their birth date, hard as that may be to believe. I am still prone to forget my own exact age and even birthdays on occasion, though this is more out of denial than any creeping sense of senility I suspect (started during my thirties I recall). Ah yes, and they say most things get better with age. My retort: sweet 16, kindly come again!
Raised by a Catholic mother and jack-Protestant father (with plenty of nuns in the mix) so what should you expect. I still look at my birth certificate and suspect forgery. There is NO way I'm that old!
I have three comments on the topic, if you can bear with me:
1) Many people celebrated their own Saint's Day, even in America. On the Feast of St. Joseph my Irish-American mother-in-law in Chicago, for instance, always had a big family dinner honoring her husband and firstborn son. But it was never claimed that was their birthday. Their birthdays were celebrated, too, and with gifts. So it might be likely a person who DID NOT KNOW when he was born might be advised by a religious person to use his Saint's day. I was raised in a very religious family (German-American mother) that never even discussed an individual's Saints Day. Nor did I ever hear anyone mention it until after I was married. So I, too, think it was at most a local or family custom, perhaps, but not widespread.
2) My own 2nd great-grandfather did not know his birthdate as his parents died in the Irish Famine when he was a small child. When he got to America everyone started asking for a birthdate. He figured he was a year or two younger than his cousin Charlie in Galway. As they got on the boat for America he was asked his age. He asked his companion and older cousin Ed, "When do you think Charlie was born?" and cousin Ed gave it his best shot. And then my Great Ed subtracted a year. Later on he needed more than just an age. For the particular day, he chose the day he landed in New York .... May 26. During the Great Famine, I guess, Moms weren't having little birthday parties and the rural Irish weren't sending birthday cards to wee lads. Germany had similar devastations from corn and potato blight in the 1840s and no one cared when you were born. It was simply not important in rural 18th and 19th centuries. Perhaps not important at all until Joyce Hall founded Hallmark.
If my Great Ed had asked a priest what he should do for a birth date, the priest might well have suggested using his Saint's Day, but Great Ed found his own day his own way.
The Saint's Day might well have been used in Christian orphanages of that time, too, if the birth date wasn't known. They had to put down SOMETHING for name and date and often knew neither!
3) It has been said that in Ireland there was a monetary fine if a birth was not registered within something like 30 days. Well, I guess that worked well for city folks and those who rode in coaches with fast horses. But for the rural folk it was nigh onto impossible to get those babies registered on time with the civil authority, especially in winter. Often if required a walk of 12 or 20 miles of a rural nursing mother who would have to carry her babe in arms. So they registered the births when they could ....... perhaps when they were going to a market day to sell their sheep and spun wool ... and they gave a date that fit within the allotted time for avoiding the penalty of a fine. They saw it as a chore, that was all. They could not foresee it would do them or the child any good .... or that it would be important to us. They took care of what was important to them, of course: the Godparents were pre-selected and the baby was always baptized as quickly as possible, to have the stain of original sin removed and the possibility of eternal life in heaven assured .... and to have all of that recorded for posterity where it really counted for something, in God's book.
If it were truly a widespread practice in the 19th century in Germany, someone offer up what details are known please! Perhaps this will explain why the origins of uncle Otto never fits anything (and I know that guy was no saint). 