RE: German language in America

hannover-l
1

I agree with many of the things Herr Görtz says, but I would not go so far
as to say that Germans have never faced integration problems in the US.
My Dohrmann and Stellwagen ancestors came to New York in the 1850s, followed
by the Schneiders in 1882. The Stellwagens lived in a part of New York City
known as "Kleindeutschland" because of the large number of German immigrants
(this area is now known as the East Village for anyone familiar with NYC).
And the Schneiders lived in Astoria near the Steinway piano factory - the
common language on the main shopping street (Steinway Street) even in the
1930s was a mixture of English and German which my grandfather referred to
as "Steinway Avenue Dutch" - folks had forgotten parts of their German, but
couldn't quite speak English either. It was quite common in the cities for
immigrants to settle in neighborhoods based on nationalities (still true
today - Steinway Street now has many Arabic and Afghan businesses in place
of the former German community).
In the American Civil War, fought in the 1860s after the first big wave of
German immigration to the US, many Northern military units (especially those
from New York and Missouri) were formed largely of German speakers - there
was friction and distrust between these units and their American-born
comrades.
Some groups had (and have) it more difficult than others, the Germans
typically had an easier time than some groups but I would not go so far as
to say it was problem-free.

Frohe Weihnachtsfeste!
Art Dohrman
Huntsville AL

2

[mailto:hannover-l-bounces@genealogy.net] On Behalf Of Art Dohrman
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 11:55 AM
To: hannover-l@genealogy.net
Subject: [HN] RE: German language in America

I agree with many of the things Herr Görtz says, but I would
not go so far as to say that Germans have never faced
integration problems in the US.

Art,

In relative terms the Germans often had it easier then others simply because
they
had a 'reputation'. German craftsmen were always in demand in this country.
Their
work ethic was highly praised and desirable for employment.

They were seen as honest and hard working with old-world skills to boot. The
only problems for them were propaganda related and due to the two world
wars. The first was really bad as the government was actively engaged in
spreading anti-German propaganda in order to cheer up entry to the war. The
military-industrial complex pushed with all their might as money is involved
in any war. Just as the 500 billion for Iraq goes into somebody's pocket so
did previous expenditures. Wars make many people very rich while others die.
It's always been the nature of the beast.

So, in most general terms, the German immigrant was typically able to blend
into American society in one generation. German neighborhoods never lasted
very long as the children moved out into general society. I reviewed German
neighborhoods in Philadelphia once and found that 40 to 50 years was about
all it took before the old folks died off and the new ones had left. The
churches survived a bit longer with their German services but eventually
they too became something else or were closed. In a way this is sad but it's
also quite normal.

I used to go to 86th or 87th street in NY to shop or have coffee and cake in
the Kleine Konditorei or eat in some of the other German restaurants. It's
all gone now. Das ist alles vorbei aber trotzdem schade.

Fred

3

Germanic integration in America (as well as other large Western nations like Canada and Australia) has been relatively smooth overall, for the gamut of reasons many here have suggested. German immigrants were valued for their skills, education, work ethic, fortitude, etc. as Fred noted [Arbeit macht das leben s�ss!]. As all know, many of the developing Western countries of the modern era were founded (invaded, your choice) by the English, who were and are racial cousins of the Deutsch on the continent, with obvious and substantive cultural/religious overlappings. But perhaps even more telling is the fact that the largest ethnic group, at least in the United States, is constituted of German Americans [58 million at last count], whose numbers far exceed those of English or Irish backgrounds, and by substantial margins (the Irish and English being the next largest groups, perhaps soon to be eclipsed by the Mexicans - our growing version of the Turks - but that's another story).

A degree of anti-German sentiment did spread as German immigration numbers grew in untold leaps and bounds. The Germans were accused by many 18th century Anglos of laziness, illiteracy, clannishness, a reluctance to assimilate, excessive fertility, and Catholicism. They were even blamed for the severe Pennsylvania winters! {{{Yikes}}}

However it was the anti-German propaganda of World War I that actually bordered on the criminal. It was arguably more stringent than that of WWII. In the 19th century, it was not unusual to see references to Germans (euphemistically or colloquially) as 'Teutons'. It was a neutral word that had no negative connotations per s�. During WWI that changed. The Germans, who the Wilson administration were lining in the crosshairs for a showdown, were almost uniformly referred to as 'Huns' in the press and wires across the country, and in a most derisive way (with the obvious insinuations to the bloodthirsty Huns of Attila's day).

Such attitudes had a chilling effect on language use. During this time most of the states dropped German from their school curricula. [In fairness though, the anti-German school laws were later declared unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court, circa 1923]. However as many as 18,000 people were charged in the Midwest during and immediately following World War I with violating the English-only statutes. [It was no myth Mona!]

Notwithstanding the persistent legend that German missed becoming our official language by a single vote (through a century of claims by the likes of Ripley's Believe-It-or-Not, Parade magazine, certain authors, etc.), American English has never been in any real jeopardy. At no time in our early (colonial) history was the percentage of Germans in the United States ever higher than about ten percent, and hardly in position to upset the cart (ergo, status quo). The reality is, Americans have never had a legally established official language! That said, no other language or tongue has ever had equal status with English, from colonial times to the present day.

It goes without saying that Germans have played an important, even crucial, role in the history and development of America (and most other Western countries). Their stamp is all around us in ways too numerous to count, even in the Germanic (Anglish) tongue we speak. But assimilative forces were - and are - hard to resist. Most of Anglo-German blending and social change, here and elsewhere, came from ethnic assimilation, industrialization, road-building, electrification, mass media, and the passing of isolated rural life, and in the end far less from legislation, persecution or intimidation.

Jb

4

<<German immigration numbers
grew in untold leaps and bounds. The Germans were accused by many 18th
century Anglos of laziness, illiteracy, clannishness, a reluctance to
assimilate, excessive fertility, and Catholicism. They w>>

Hi Jb

Much of these many sides has to do with chained v. unchained migration & rural/urban.

The 1940 census showed that the third generation in rural Missouri were nearly five times as likely to claim German as their mother tongue as their counter parts in St. Louis The St. Louis City school system had introduced German language instruction after the Civil War, but had voted it down again in the late 1880s despite a sizable block of German voters in the city. My Hannovarian g-grand was surely one of those voters since he had already made the decision to educate his son in English speaking schools. St. Louis had a German theater until WWI and a German Press until WWII.

An example of the above was told by William Seabrook who was writing for New America Magazine in 1937 when he visited a town named "New Melle" (the namesake of the township/district) which was located in St. Charles Co. - not far fron St Louis Quite possibly, the original residents had been neighboring farm workers Seabrook states, "This area was something different: In a village named New Melle, about 30 miles from St. Louis, I walked into a general store, and for a moment passed unnoticed while a group of farm children, some of them barely toddling, were buzzing to each other and to the shopkeeper in low German, not one word of English - not even interspersed with English slang."

This is another indicator of the influence of a chain migration community in cultural persistence. By comparison, my g-grand's Mathias' grandchildren knew very little of the German language.

Gary Stoltman

5

Gary wrote:

This is another indicator of the influence of a chain migration community in cultural persistence.

Hmmm Gary, this has all the beginnings of an anthropological thesis. :wink: Kidding aside, you do bring up a good point, where cultural influences and outcomes are partly circumstantial and thus given to variation, as opposed to outright inevitability or absolute predetermination (hmmm... now I've begun a thesis). Close knit or isolated communities invariably shield and retain their unique identities better than larger metropolitan areas, where everything seems to get lost in the shuffle (or is it at malls stamped from cookie cutters?). Can you imagine the struggle communities like the Mennonites and Amish are going through at the present time in trying to keep a lock on their cultural identity? The impact and influence of this modern, mass communication network we have assembled must hover over them like heavy clouds. And please don't get me started on the modern corporate mindset we now seem fully mesmerized with, where everything begins and ends with a profit!

Personally I can't stomach the thought of the coming 'One World Order', but I often wonder if anything can stop it. May we rot in hell should this come to pass. [apologies for digression]

The world is changing, even if many things remain the same (human nature being chief amongst these timeless gritty artifacts). The collective and pervasive tide of the world being drawn closer together, for better or worse, may dictate in the end how all these cultural peculiarities and microcosms end up. Like the Cole Camp heritage Neil and Bob speak of, the Plattdeutsch Karl still communicates, the Pommerns in Mequon-Freistadt that Mona referenced, the Poles of Ruhrgebiet per Bernd's recollection, the 'Steinway Avenue Dutch' Art spoke of, or even the little Konditorei Fred once frequented in NYC. It seems sad but inevitable to think that in the end, their days may be (or will be - or were) numbered. Much like the passing of the once mighty reptiles of the Mesozoic era :: try as they might to resist, the tide kept coming. Or perhaps it's as the German tank division commander remarked when the Anglo-Americans forces took that famed bridge at Remagen, to the query of an adjutant pleading "Who will stop them now?? "No one!" was his terse and knowing reply.

On that offbeat note, pass on what you can because surely it may fade like our days.

Jb

6

My maternal grandparents are a good example (at least to me) of the use of German in the households of rural vs urban.

All four of my grandfather's grandparents came over as young, unmarried, men and women between 1837 and 1855. Only one came over with her parents as a young girl, the others came over alone or with a sibling when around 20 years old. They all settled in and around the small towns of Venedy and Hoyleton in Washington County, IL. My grandfather's father was bilingual, but his mother spoke only German. My grandfather was also bilingual, speaking English with a noticeable German accent.

All four of my grandmother's grandparents came over as young, unmarried men and women between 1848 and 1857. They all settled in Indianapolis, IN. My grandmother's parents both spoke some German, although I don't know that either was truly bilingual. My grandmother spoke no German, which made for an interesting time when she met her future mother-in-law who spoke no English. My grandfather had to translate so they could converse.

Joel
http://www.mindspring.com/~jsruss/

7

Dear Joel,

My GGM ..polish..was born in 1888 on a farm in Beaucoup...near Radom, Washington County, Illinois.

Lots of Germans in the area of Dubois, Hoyleton, Venedey.

Lots of polish purchased lands from the Central Illinois Railroad..

Barbie-Lew