Friends of mine are named Grottendieck. Their name originates from the
region of Osnabrück, east of that place and to the south of Melle, where
there used to be a big pond, or in the Early German language: eine Grote
Diek; in modern German: eine Grosse Teich. In Germanic languages the change
from ei to ie occurs quite often. So diek is noet necessarily related to
dike. In the Osnabrücker and Oldenburger Land ponds and lakes are more
frequent than dikes. Names related to dikes are more likely to be found in
Holland and the northern part of Germany.
The name Imdieke consists of Im and Dieke. The first part remembers me if
Ieme, or bees and the second part will be the pond. So the family might be
related to a pond in the vicinity of bees. Or they were beeholders (Imker)
near a pond..
Frans C. Nelis,
Apeldoorn, the Netherlands.
Andrew Laker's inquiry about the origin of his family name piqued my
interest so now I am inquiring about my family nameand wonder if some of
you
learned genealogists might comment. Our family name is Imdieke. Many people
have told us that they believe it means on the dyke. My ancestors
originated
from Holdorf in Oldenburg. There are also people from that area with the
name Imsieke. I am told by someone from that vicinity that he believes one
of the names got changed accidentally to the other. Any thoughts on this?
As my last name is Grote, I read your post with interest.
My family comes from near Visbek, maybe 50 miles northeast of Osnabruck.
I understand that Grote translates as large or big, and that Grote or Grotte sometimes is used as a prefix such as in your friend's case. However, I assumed it was more of a Dutch language word. In Amsterdam the large outdoor market is the Grote Market or something like that, while in Germany as you say the word today would be Grosse. Your post instead suggests that maybe the name originates in "Early German". Is Early German the mother language of both the modern Dutch and German languages? I had thought that maybe my ancestors had been more on the Dutch side of the border, but maybe that's not the case, given your note.
On another point, is there any sense of when folks largely moved into today's Oldenburger Munsterland area? I'd read that Charlemagne stared St. Vitus church and Christianity in Visbek around the year 800. Is it reasonable to think our father's father etc have been in Oldenburger since ancient times, or is there evidence of some other migrations into the area in the Middle Ages or later times?
Amazing, that a reaction comes from someone with ancestors from Visbek. My
Stuve ancestors may be connected to those living at the Stüvenmühle (Stüve
Mill) located between Visbek and Ahlhorn. Hendrik Stüve migrated from
Bakum/Vestrup near Vechta to Holland around 1770.
Migration from what is now Germany to Holland begun during the Dutch Golden
Age, but before that time Germans could find employment in Dutch armies.
Language was not much of a problem, because "Platt-Deutsch" is very much
like the Dutch tongues spoken in the eastern part of our country. In time,
Hochdeutsch and Nederlands (Dutch) were formed out of the original languages
that were spoken and written on both sides of the border. We now need
dictionaries to find the exact meaning of words, because a word that looks
the same does not necessarily mean the same in the other language.
Werner Honkomp has made it clear in his reaction how 'groot' and 'gross'
have the same root. I can assure you, that Deutsch-Platt counts a lot more
words that look like Dutch.
I have not studied older migrations, but it is hard to believe, that people
stayed very long in the same area. Migrating people usually named their new
residential place after a former. Just as they did when migrating to
America: Harlem (Haarlem), Brooklyn (Breukelen), Holland Mi (Holland), Pella
Ia (Pella, Greece), Syracuse (Syracuse, Italy) and so on. On the map of
Western Europe you will find lots of name double and triples.
The flow of migrations over the centuries can best be studied by following
DNA-tracks. You can find more information on the site of the National
Geographic Magazine, where you can click on the Genetic Project. Taking part
in that project, you can find where your own ancestors in the male line
originate from.
In Holland names like Groot, Groote, Grote, de Groot are very common. It
means, that the (first) bearer of the name was a tall man. Worldwide known
is Hugo de Groot (Latin: Hugo Grotius) famous for his writing about the
Freedom of the seas.
the Pagenstert book explained, that the last name after the Middle Ages has arisen.
First it was an additional of the place where the lived, also trees, forest, fields, lakes etc.
Some came from the occupation. A personal or physical quality is based on some names - like "de Grote" (der Große = the tall man), later only Grote. Grote is low german of Große. There is no any connection to the Charlemagne (Karl der Große).
For our area listed Pagensteert this old farms with different origins:
Visbek-Erlte: 1545 Joan Grote, 1568 Wilke de Grote, 1766 Gerd Heinrich Grote