Hamburg ships list

mecklenburg-l
1

I have looked at the Hamburg list online to find relatives and have not found them. Someone said the lists were incomplete. What I wonder is whether they are incomplete because records are destroyed or otherwise not available or because they have not all been transcribed ... in which case, if they are continuting to be transcribed I should be checking back from time to time?

Also, if a person left Rostock is Hamburg the most likely point of departure? And if the person left as recently as 1929... would those records be available? I wonder if the politics of the time might have influenced what the point of departure was? If a person was a young man of age for conscription, would he have been able to just leave?

Carola Jesse
familyjesse@sbcglobal.net

2

familyjesse schrieb:

I have looked at the Hamburg list online to find relatives and have not found
them. Someone said the lists were incomplete. What I wonder is whether
they are incomplete because records are destroyed or otherwise not available
or because they have not all been transcribed ... in which case, if they are
continuting to be transcribed I should be checking back from time to time?

Last year it was announced in "�berseeische Auswanderung und familienforschung.
Hrsg. v. J�rgen Sielemann, rainer Hering und Ulf Bollmann, Hamburg 2002, ISBN
3-935413-03-3" that it will last still several years until all ship-list are
onlne. As they start in Hamburg with the year 1850 and they go back 1851 will be
one of the last years. From 1850 to 1854 there are big-volumed registers in which
the names are in a rough order a,b,c written into the book, prenames are given
only with the first letters, there is almost no business or work or profession
given. Given is the place of birth, the age, the harbour to go, the names of ship
and captain and the day of departure. From 1855 on this was given up and they
gathered theshipping companies passenger lists with full names and relationship
of commonly emigrated people. All to be red in the above book page 52

If you have got the year of departure you may contact: Elizabeth Sroka, Historic
Emigration Office, Tourismus-Zentrale, Steinstr.7, 20095 hamburg, E-mail:
esrokaheo qaol.com, Internet: http://www.heo-online.de Don't know nothing about
costs here.

Also, if a person left Rostock is Hamburg the most likely point of departure?
  And if the person left as recently as 1929... would those records be
available? I wonder if the politics of the time might have influenced what
the point of departure was? If a person was a young man of age for
conscription, would he have been able to just leave?

As Hamburg was the nearest enshipping harbour from Rostock, it was the most
likely place for going on board, but there was probably no obligation. As the
journeys were advertised and booked from the hometown, it should have depended in
a degree of the company who sold it. With the military rules I am not too accus-
tomed, so I cannot give an answer to that part of your query.

Greetings Hans Peter Albers

3

Hi Carola,

familyjesse schrieb:

I have looked at the Hamburg list online to find relatives and have not found them. Someone said the lists were incomplete. What I wonder is whether they are incomplete because records are destroyed or otherwise not available or because they have not all been transcribed ... in which case, if they are continuting to be transcribed I should be checking back from time to time?

the emigrant lists of Hamburg are from 1850-1934, the lists for the
period since 1935 are lost caused by war damages. After the WWII the
new lists started in 1947.

At the Staatsarchiv Hamburg are the lists from 1850-1934, 1947-1956,
1960-1964 and some special lists, the persons who emigrated via
�berseeheim Finkenwerder 1949-1959, persons who emigrated by aeroplane
to Australia 1954-1970 and to the USA 1961-1964 (Intergovernmental
Committee for European Migration).

The emigrant lists online (link to your roots) will be continued, but
it will take years. Perhaps you can find emigrant lists filmed by LDS.

4

I would be interested in any comments or information anyone might be able to
give regarding the following. I had brilliant help in finding the following
information as I don't think I would ever have found them otherwise.

I have seen several messages come through this list regarding a family with
the surname JESSE. I don't know if my family could be connected to that
particular family, but it appears that although records in the German
Lutheran Church in Menomonie, Wisconsin show the surname GEST.....many (if
not all) records in Germany seem to use the spelling JESSE. Can anyone
comment on this change of spelling. Is Gest is common German spelling?

My PRANGE family emigrated through NY to Wisconsin in 1881 .....leaving
Hamburg on the "Bohemia" on 30 October.

Germans to America has misconstrued the name and printed it as Prauge, but
it is definitely PRANGE.

Johann Carl Friedrich SCHREIBER PRANGE married Augusta Johanna Friederica
Sophia GEST.

Marriage Records for 1864 from Thuerkow, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Germany, Item
1, April 15,1864, Groom: Johann Carl Friedrich Schreiber, father: not
listed, mother: Maria Schreiber of Gross Wokern. Bride: Augusta Johanna
Friedrica Sophia Gest, father: Fritz Friedrich Samuel Gest, carpenter,
mother: not shown. Place: Thuerkow, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Germany. Groom
born 20 Aug 1836 in Gross Wokern. Bride born 8 Oct 1835 in Tenze.

Johann and Augusta were my gg grandparents.

When looking for the father of Augusta the following was found which seems
possible for Fritz Friedrich Samuel GEST. It seems the name may actually
have been JESSE in Mecklenburg-Schwerin. Although I have written Gest in
the following records they started to surface as Jesse.

Birth/Christening records for Belitz, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Germany, Year
1807, 13 Aug 1807. Friedrich Samuel Gest born at Halsberg,
Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Germany. Father: Christoph Gest. Mother: Maria
Lippert. Christened 15 Aug 1807 at Belitz, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Germany.
Witnesses at christening were Friedrich Schuenemann from Schwiessel, Johann
Samuel Krause, shepherd's assistant and his wife Louise Christina, nee
Hermes.

Death/Burial Records from Tenze, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Germany, Year 1865,
Fritz Friedrich Samuel Gest, died 10 Jan 1865 at Tenze,
Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Germany of Pneumonia. Buried 13 Jan 1865. Aged 57
years, 4 months. Born 13 Aug 1807 in Halsberg.

The information I have on Christoph Gest/Jesse is as follows:

Marriage Records for Belitz, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Germany, Year 1798, 19
October 1798. Groom: Johann Christian Gest, carpenter. Bride: Sophia Maria
Lippert, Father of the bride: Stonemason Lippert from Schlakendorf. Place
of Marriage: Belitz, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Germany....... It is believed he
was born about 1770.

I can't dig up the actual record copies at this time, but if anyone can
contribute to the above information in any way I would be interested in
hearing your information. To the other Jesse researcher....Is this the area
you were looking in?

Thank you for any information you can give.

Bonnie Menzer Barnes
Perth, Western Australia

5

Bonnie Barnes schrieb:

I would be interested in any comments or information anyone might be able to
give regarding the following. I had brilliant help in finding the following
information as I don't think I would ever have found them otherwise.

I have seen several messages come through this list regarding a family with
the surname JESSE. I don't know if my family could be connected to that
particular family, but it appears that although records in the German
Lutheran Church in Menomonie, Wisconsin show the surname GEST.....many (if
not all) records in Germany seem to use the spelling JESSE. Can anyone
comment on this change of spelling. Is Gest is common German spelling?

First the general situation in spread of this two names GEST and JESSE is, there
comes on one bearer of the name GEST about eight of the name JESSE. The name GEST
with about 130 families can be found specially still nowadays in the region of
Mecklenburg up to Potsdam and Berlin, colonies are in the region D�sseldorf and
M�nchen.

It doesn't seem probably that the change could have been caused by slightly
misspelling, more probably might be a misreading. That is what I would say as a
native speaker of the German. There is a similiarity in writing the old great "G"
and "J" in the consruction of the letter. They are basically the same "painting",
but the "G" has before something as a great "O". Starting writing the "H" with a
great swing, as people sometime do being asked giving the name and underline, the
result may cause a missunderstanding. The old alphabet had three different
writings for an "s" inclusive the "�". One "s" looks very much alike the "t",
difference is, this "s" cuts the bottom of the writing line, the "t" doesn't and
has an additional short horizontal stroke or dash crossing the downgoing line,
which stops at the writing level. Differences in handwriting may have caused this
change from second "s" to the second "t". The loss of the "e".I have no
explanation except the often changes in that point in the "JESSE"-name.

Concerning now your special genealogical problem of changing in name, it seems as
if all that was done by and go back to one document: The marriage document from
1864. If everything else afterwards is cleared up, you write of PRANGE SCHREIBER
and again only of SCHREIBER, if that identity is safe, I would say the mistake
goes back to the writer of the parish book in Thuerkow /Mecklenburg. It is not
sure, that the married got automatically a copy of the parish-book entry and the
name GEST/JESSE was not anymore used by them, because of the woman took over the
man's name SCHREIBER. Could have been the fault has been lately found out. 15
years later your people had emigrating other problems than try to change the old
document fault and might have decided keep things in the way they had gone. It
must have been also a very complicated affaire in this time to urge someone here
from over there to correct the entrance of the parish-book.

So much of facts and thoughts I can tribute. Greetings Hans Peter Albers

6

Where does a person find the Hamburg list online and does it cost?? I am
trying to research my ancestors from Germany whom left from Hamburg. Thank
you.
Alberta
donalb@linkny.com

7

Alberta schrieb:

Where does a person find the Hamburg list online and does it cost?? I am
trying to research my ancestors from Germany whom left from Hamburg. Thank
you.
Alberta
donalb@linkny.com

For the not yet published lists from after 1850 there is given the possibility to
get news by:

Elisabeth Sroka, Historic Emigration Office, Tourismus-Zentralem, Steinstr. 7,
20095 hamburg, E-Mail: esrokaheo@aol.com, Internet: http://www.heo-online.de

Good information for Hamburg-Emigration is: Sielemann, J�rgen / Hering, Rainer /
Bollmann, Ulf: �berseeische Auswanderung und Familienforschung, Hamburg 2002,
95 pages, ISBN 3-935413-03-3. As far as I remember a English transaltion should
be in preparation or might even be already available, but don't know exactly.
Also can't say something about the costs, but should be told after E-mail-con-
tact.
Greetings Hans Peter Albers

8

Bonnie,

I am researching JESSE in Mecklenburg as well. I have not found any GEST,
but my JESSE family immigrated much later to America. We have a small
family, now three branches, all descended from only one immigrant who came
in 1945.

In Mecklenburg, our JESSE family is from Rostock (after 1876) and
Moenchhagen (1705-1876). My JESSE family has used JESS, JESSE and JESSEN.
JESSEN was the older form, JESS and JESSE continued to be used
interchangably into the late 1800s. My own JESSE family out of Moechhagen
gets to be quite huge, many branches have spread throughout Mecklenburg.
Also, there are a few other JESSE families in Mecklenburg... there may be
some ancient connection between them, but none that I can establish.

The Volkenshagen Churchbook is where I have found most of my JESSE family.
There are several other very common names in the parish book, and the first
names run in common between families as well... I cannot recall the other
surnames you mention being there. I could not find any of my JESSE family
anywhere until I got the films for their village.

I suggest you look up films for Thuerkow on the Mormon site, I checked for
you already... you will need to omit the "e". They have used the umlaut
and the search engine does not recognize the e that we add to compensate
for that in English. Go to www.familysearch.org, go to search, then to the
blue bar to the far right: family history library catalog, then on the blue
buttons to the right, choose the top: place. When the screen comes up type
Thurkow and you should get several choices. You will be able to order films
for the Churchbook of this village and see for yourself all the registers.

Hope this helps.
Carola Jesse
familyjesse@sbcglobal.net

9

Thank you Carola for your information and directions. I have been a bit
housebound for a while and unable to make much use of the LDS Family History
Centre in my area, however a dear friend has found many of my records for
me. I guess the sudden change from GEST to JESSE has sort of bothered me
and I'm not completely satisfied in my own mind that we have the right
person.

One record mentioned that the father was from a particular village and the
only record he could find that matched our information was JESSE....not GEST
as we originally were looking for. I'm not sure I'll ever find supporting
documents for the change, but sure hope he is the right person. I have
trouble reading the old records even when someone tells me what they
say....so you can imagine how bad I am at it. I'm just so thankful for the
help I've received.

Thanks again for your message. I'll have a look at the family search site
and hopefully one day I'll be able to do some of my own research into this.
I'm really happy with just the information I already have, but would love to
know more about these little villages and the living conditions in those
villages and for people of the level of income at the time.

Bonnie
Perth, Western Australia

10

Hans Peter Albers,

Thank you very much for all the information you have given me. I will go
through my papers (filed away in one of the boxes of genealogy info I've
accumulated) and try to find out what the time period was that my records
indicate the Gest name appeared as Jesse.

Due to extended illness I haven't researched as actively as I used to, but I
monitor the list and had some wonderful help getting this far.

There is no question that my SCHREIBER took the name of his natural father
at a later date and used this name when he emigrated. My gg gf Johann Carl
Friedrich SCHREIBER/PRANGE's christening record is as follows:

Birth/Christening records for Gross Wokern, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Germany,
(Possibly page 89. Hard to make out if this is page number), 20 Aug 1836,
Johann Carl Friedrich Schreiber, place: Gross Wokern, Mecklenburg-Schwerin,
Germany. Father: Alleged, Johann Prange, worker from Mamerow. Mother:
Maria Schreiber, maiden from Gross Wokern. Christened 21 Aug 1836 at Gross
Wokern, Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Germany. Witnesses at christening were Carl
Dobbertin, a shepherd from Gross Wokern, Johann Moll, daylaborer from Gross
Wokern, and Johann Baumann, a worker from Gross Wokern.

Johann Carl Friedrich Schreiber was one of three children all born to the
same parents who apparently never married. One child was stillborn, one
died in her teenage years and all show the father as alledged, Joh.
Friedrich Prange. Two of the birth records name the children's father as
Joh. Friedrich Prange, the other just said Johann Prange.

I am not concerned with this as I suppose there could be various reasons why
they never married. I wish I knew the reason, but most likely I will only
have to guess at it. If you or anyone else wants to explain why they think
my ggg grandparents never married....I'd like to hear it. I have only my
opinion from information I have read about life in Mecklenburg Schwerin in
those days and apparently they would be considered quite a poor family. My
suspicion is that his marriage may have required permission from his
employer and this was denied. I could be wrong, but it is just a guess.

Johann Carl Friedrich Schreiber took the name Prange apparently upon
emmigration to the U.S. although I have not viewed the actual record. The
Peace Lutheran Church in Menomonie, Wisconsin recorded their name on records
as PRANG, but the family appears on census records, etc in the U.S. as PRONG
and that is the way the name is always recorded in American records since
1900. My mother was Eleanor Marie Prong.

The book Germans to America lists them as passengers on the Bohemia as:

Prauge, Johann age 47 (This may have been a typing error or inability
to read the
             Auguste age 46 handwritten records)
             Fritz age 14
             Heinrich age 9
             Caroline age 6

The ages are a bit off from a couple of the records I have located, but they
are definitely my gg gf/gm and my g-gf and great aunt and great uncle.

Although I never personally knew any of them, I feel as if I did and sure
wish I could have known more about their lives.

Thanks again for your information. I really appreciate it.

Bonnie Menzer Barnes
Perth, Western Australia

Concerning now your special genealogical problem of changing in name, it

seems as

if all that was done by and go back to one document: The marriage document

from

1864. If everything else afterwards is cleared up, you write of PRANGE

SCHREIBER

and again only of SCHREIBER, if that identity is safe, I would say the

mistake

goes back to the writer of the parish book in Thuerkow /Mecklenburg. It is

not

sure, that the married got automatically a copy of the parish-book entry

and the

name GEST/JESSE was not anymore used by them, because of the woman took

over the

man's name SCHREIBER. Could have been the fault has been lately found out.

15

years later your people had emigrating other problems than try to change

the old

document fault and might have decided keep things in the way they had

gone. It

must have been also a very complicated affaire in this time to urge

someone here

from over there to correct the entrance of the parish-book.

So much of facts and thoughts I can tribute. Greetings Hans Peter

Albers

11

Bonnie Barnes schrieb:

Due to extended illness I haven't researched as actively as I used to, but I
monitor the list and had some wonderful help getting this far.

Troubled about to hear that, hope everything concerning your health had become
better and as we should enjoy what we do, it might even be better to make not to
much a duty of the hobby.

...
Johann Carl Friedrich Schreiber was one of three children all born to the
same parents who apparently never married. One child was stillborn, one
died in her teenage years and all show the father as alledged, Joh.
Friedrich Prange. Two of the birth records name the children's father as
Joh. Friedrich Prange, the other just said Johann Prange.

I am not concerned with this as I suppose there could be various reasons why
they never married. I wish I knew the reason, but most likely I will only
have to guess at it. If you or anyone else wants to explain why they think
my ggg grandparents never married....I'd like to hear it. I have only my
opinion from information I have read about life in Mecklenburg Schwerin in
those days and apparently they would be considered quite a poor family. My
suspicion is that his marriage may have required permission from his
employer and this was denied. I could be wrong, but it is just a guess.
...

As you said it, there might be a lot of reasons. One simple reason could have
been, they couldn't afford the marriage fee of the church. In the 1860ies also a
reason might have been opposition to every kind of church. One has to consider at
this time also becoming modern and fashionable theory of "religion as opium to
the crowd". In this time about 1836 a reason might have been, he was already
married, could not get divorced and lived by that reason outside the "law". On
the other hand three godfathers for the son seems to indicate a very normal
situation. There are a lot of cases with illegitimate childs, where it hadn't
been easy to find one godfather. One may find out by the church-book, if he was
married before or even same time.

But one may ask, how could they emigrate with no money at all ? Seems as if they
had recovered a bit, like the whole country did after the war 1871 against France
which was won and flushed a lot of reperation paying into the country. By the way
the time of official influence of the employer on private decisions as marriage
plans should have been gone already at this time. But however in the concrete,
the unwilling and wished changes of name indicate, that the emigrant was very
fond of letting behind the circumstances he lived in in old europe. Nobody can
blame him for renouncing even his traditional name, because it must have been
hard to be poor at that time and even harder to be poor a n d an illegitimate
son. Part of the new freedom could have been for him to bear the name he was
proud of, but not alowd to lead here. I came upon that poorness because of the
sometimes used praxis of communities to get rid of their poor and their duty to
keep them nourished and under any roof by paying the ship-cost for emigration. So
if you find in any archive your Prange / Schreiber as such poor one might look
for such documents. It is one of the possibilities even the poorest let traces
behind in the archives, although it is a very difficult research to find such
documents. One had to start from the townarchive and end in the statearchives.

Sincerely Hans Peter Albers

12

Hans Peter Albers,

Thank you so much for your view on what the situation could have been like
for my
Johann Carl Friedrich Schreiber/Prange. I had never realized so many
situations were
possible, but you have certainly opened my eyes to more possibilities.

I enjoyed reading your message so much that I can hardly wait to read it to
my husband and
daughter in the morning. It's the wee small hours of the morning here and I
should be in bed.
I'm on my way there now.

Worrying about my health won't help, but I have had to put a lot of research
on hold as sometimes other things just have to be given a priority. This
year has probably been the worst one since diagnosis, but there are new
discoveries all the time.......and I'm still here.

I started genealogy as a hobby in the late 1970's when I still lived in the
U.S. When I moved to Australia in 1980 it all seemed too hard as almost
everyone seemed to have an English background and even help from the FHC
seemed extremely limited. When we finally caught up with technology in our
household and went on the internet in 1996 or 97 genealogy came back into my
life. I really love it, but some of the geography involved and distances,
etc make it much harder. I have purchased of good map of
Mecklenburg-Schwerin and that helps, but like all places I've researched
many times there are several towns or villages with the same name. That
seems to be what throws me the most.....finding the right one. I have
relations from Hesse as well and the same situation has come up there. Like
too many Kirchheim's.

Again, thanks so much for the great reply. I can imagine so many other
circumstances for their not marrying now than I could before. I'll remain
on the lookout for any clues that might appear as research progresses.

Bonnie