Alle Listenteilnehmer, die Mitglied in der GFF (Gesellschaft f�r
Familienforschung in Franken) sind, m�chte ich darauf aufmerksam machen,
dass die GFF seit kurzem �ber eine eigene Mailing-Liste verf�gt. Es handelt
sich dabei um eine geschlossene, nur GFF-Mitgliedern zug�ngliche, Liste.
GFF-Mitglieder k�nnen sich �ber die Adresse gff-l-admin@genealogy.net unter
Angabe Ihres Namens und ihrer E-Mail-Adresse anmelden.
Mit freundlichen Gr��en
Georg Paulus
Soll man dort mehr sagen können wie hier? Ich verstehe den
Zweck einer vereinseigenen Liste leider nicht sehr gut.
Vereinsinterne Sachen werden sowieso nur in den Versammlungen
abgehandelt.
Aber als Mitglied werde ich mich wohl melden müssen um noch
wieder zu einer Liste zu gehören. Man würde denken daß das
Thema Familienforschung in Franken am besten dort besprochen
wird wo die meisten Leute Zugang haben. Das Gegenteil davon ist
natürlich nur drei Vereinsleute in einen Schrank zu stecken. Dann
haben sie ihren Verein UND die Geheimlichkeit dazu.
Fred
26 Warren St., Beverly, NJ 08010
609-386-6846 FredRump@earthlink.net
Hallo Herr Paulus,
darf man den Sinn der elit�ren GFF Liste erfahren?
MfG
GFF 667 Bernd Fischer
-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
W. Fred Rump schrieb:
...
> Alle Listenteilnehmer, die Mitglied in der GFF (Gesellschaft f�r
> Familienforschung in Franken) sind, m�chte ich darauf aufmerksam
> machen, dass die GFF seit kurzem �ber eine eigene Mailing-Liste
> verf�gt. Es handelt sich dabei um eine geschlossene, nur
> GFF-Mitgliedern zug�ngliche, Liste.
>
> GFF-Mitglieder k�nnen sich �ber die Adresse gff-l-admin@genealogy.net
> unter Angabe Ihres Namens und ihrer E-Mail-Adresse anmelden.Soll man dort mehr sagen k�nnen wie hier? Ich verstehe den
Zweck einer vereinseigenen Liste leider nicht sehr gut.
Vereinsinterne Sachen werden sowieso nur in den Versammlungen
abgehandelt.
...
Hallo Fred,
da w�rde ich mich nicht allzu sehr ereifern. Jeder Club kann seinen
Vereinsabend unter Ausschlu� der �ffentlichkeit abhalten. Fairerweise
sollte er dann nicht die �ffentlichkeit f�r seine Verlautbarungen suchen.
Die Qualit�t dieser Franken-Liste braucht eine vereinsinterne Parallelliste
nicht zu f�rchten. Mir geht da nichts ab, wenn ich bei der Vereinsliste
nicht dabei bin.
Gruss
Konrad
Lieber Konrad,
zu Deiner Antwort unten, "mir geht da nichts ab" =
Mir auch nicht!
John 
Hessenland-L
Ja, das kann er und es wäre auch wunderbar wenn so etwas mal
passieren würde. Leider....
Wenn der Verein in der Zukunft mal so vorraussichtig sein möge
alle seine Mitglieder in eine Unterhaltung zu bringen, na dann sehe
ich auch eine Vereinsliste als sinnbar. In der Zwischenzeit rappeln
dort eine Handvoll mails unter einer kleinen Mitgliedzahl herum.
Von den 800 Mitgliedern sind wahrscheinlich prozentual weniger im
Internet als bei anderen Vereinen. Warum das ist weiß ich auch
nicht. Ich staune aber schon jahrelang darüber. Es muß wohl an
der Führung liegen so nur in eigenem Kreise und so wie es immer
war zu tanzen.
Fred
26 Warren St., Beverly, NJ 08010
609-386-6846 FredRump@earthlink.net
-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
Herr Bauernschmidt und andere,
Mein Deutsch ist nichtmehr so gut wie frueher,
aber ich moechte ihnen einen anderen Gedanken
schicken.
Wenn eine Liste geschlossen ist dann wissen die
Leute nicht was fuer Vorzuege eine mitgliederschaft
haben kann. Es ist durch denn freien Austausch von
Information das mann weiss ob mann an der richtigen
Stelle gelanded ist.
Ich habe es schon sehr viel by Vereinen hier in
Amerika beobachtet, ueberhaupt seit das Internet so
viel mehr Moeglichkeiten naeher bringt.
Ginger
gingerh@shawneelink.com
in IL
Because my written German isn't the greatest, I'll respond in English. I must
say I concur with Fred and really don't believe that jealousy has anything to
do with it whatsoever. From what I have discovered about Fred in the past year
of membership on this and another list, he is a very principled man who is
probably more concerned about the free and open sharing of information within a
wide audience as opposed to elitism.
I have often felt quite frustrated about the limited amount of information that
the GFF provides on its website compared with sites of other genealogical
organizations. It appears that the proverbial "carrot" is dangled, but the
"real stuff" is only available to those who become paid-up members. Certainly,
it is my intention to join eventually, but until I do, I will have no way of
discovering if there is any mention of my ancestors in their cache of
genealogical information.
A private, members-only, mailing list severely restricts the unfettered
exchange of information. It also is not a very effective marketing device.
You will miss so many opportunities of welcoming and promoting new memberships
by not utilizing free access, besides the negative connotation of elitism which
could easily be the message that many will receive.
Best wishes from Canada
Elsa Kahler
Elsa and Ginger,
we are barking up the wrong tree as the people in charge of the
Verein aren't here to listen in.
Those of us from foreign lands understand the philosophy of
marketing and sharing to catch a fish. In Germany that is not the
case. Information is still horded as if it were a treasure which only
the privileged few are permitted to see. I don't know if it's a cultural
thing or what but we find it everywhere except in the new internet
culture of the young people over there. Sadly most societies are
run by the old times who have the time to devote to such things
and who don't really wish to deal with the rest of the world.
I'm sure that Bruno Bauernschmidt and a few others would
probably do things differently but they are not running the societies.
I've run into the same situation in various groups I belong to over
there and have seen an eventual takeover by younger more
aggressive members who value growth and information sharing and
thereby grow their societies many fold. But this takes time. The
internet is still a scary thing to many older Germans.
If I've heard it once I've heard it a thousand times: 'I'm 70 years old
and much too old to learn about computers'. On this side of the
ocean the attitude is different. 70 is young and any new adventure
to learn keeps people, their mind and their spirit, hopping from one
thing to another. No one is too old to try something new. I'm
generalizing of course as there are exceptions but over the years
I've seen this work differently on opposite sides of the big pond.
Don't ask me why.
There is of course one advantage to a society list and that is that
they don't have to put up with those pesky foreigners who ask all
the questions and have few of the answers. The language is familiar
and no one has to skip past an English posting like this wondering
what it says. In other words the group is somewhat elitist as it
keeps outsiders out. Let's not deny that little fact.
I joined the GFF many years ago hoping to find out some
information about an ancestor of whom I only knew that he came
from the Fürstentum Ansbach as his marriage record said in the
church books of Achelriede in the equally old Fürstbistum of
Osnabrück. I also joined the Familienforscherverein in Osnabrück. I
bought lots of books from both places but I don't think I ever got
anything of value from anyone in the Frankenverein which could
help me. In the beginning it was very frustrating because I couldn't
find 'anyone' who had an email address over there. Everything took
weeks via slow boat to China and while I received responses, no
one had any information which could help me along. I was basically
on my own with the society sending me a book every year.
In Osnabrück that it was the exact opposite. I've made many good
freinds and received tons of information from individual members.
I'm now dabbling in all kinds of 17th century records which go
beyond the churchbooks. I was even able to purchase a letter of
protection from the Queen of Sweden from 1647 which promised
my Klövekorn ancestors and their mill safety from anyone, ie
marauding troops during the 30 years war.
OK, so maybe they had more data on their computers or more
helpful members or something. I don't know. Even though. the
Osnabrück group just had a revolution of sorts were the old
management was kicked out and a new internet savy group took
charge. The old timers sat down and founded a competitive group
to keep things just like they always were - closed to outsiders and
off the net. It will be a good test to see who will wind the most
members.
I suppose Osnabrück is different in that it's smaller then the three
Frankenlands we deal with here. I can find experts on almost any
town or Kirchspiel in the principality. In Franken I've yet to find
anyone who specializes in the area I'm interested in, ie Schwabach
and the area around Altenmuhl. Maybe they exist but without an
email contact they remain unknown to me as does the vast
majority of the society membership. Maybe now that they have 50
or so people in a private mail list this will change. We'll have to
see.
Sorry for the length of this but it's mostly meant for the fluent
English reader who can just scan through this in a hurry. It's
nothing important either. Just some observations.
And Elsa, I've been working to get German genealogists into the
net since a few of them started to dabble in dos mail boxes like
Fido. Fido was already dying here when they were just picking it up
as a new invention. It's been a long haul since I was told that they
would NEVER EVER post anything on such a public place as the
Internet. Such fear of the net has been pervasive for many years
and is still not totally defeated. The cultural fears dealing with
Datenschutz and the unknown are still real and free sharing must
be a suspicious plot of some kind. Somebody somewhere must be
making money of information so it's best kept secret. It's simply a
world a few steps behind, yet forever trying to catch up with all the
old baggage of fear of an unknown danger hanging on. I guess we
have to live with it.
On an individual basis sharing is done in Germany as it is here. I've
found literally hundreds of people who have offered whatever they
had if it might be helpful to me or others. Of course, most of these
people do not belong to any society and simply do genealogy for
the love of it. The societies will probably never get them as
members as they have differing philosophies and would rather
capture and hold then share. Archives do the same of course.
I would guess that genealogical societies in Germany have a
membership in the thousands, at most 25,000 or so. I'm sure there
are hundreds of thousands who do family research on their own. It
is not much different in this country except that the numbers are
much larger.
Fred
Fred
26 Warren St., Beverly, NJ 08010
609-386-6846 FredRump@earthlink.net