GANSBERG + Prussian Draft Census

No problem Maureen. Glad I could be of a little help. Part of my own family left Lower Saxony during that time frame also, for similar reasons no doubt. As I have said a number of times before on the list, Prussian expansion amounted to a twin edged sword in the end, when all is taken into account. A lot of good came from it (if nothing else the unification of the German states and kingdoms), but alas, also a sizable measure of grief and trepidation and resentment (the price that seems inevitable when hammering together something as momentous as a federal union or new nation). Along the way there will always be plenty of winners and losers part and parcel of the process ... call it the never ending story of humanity, and human progress.

Yours is not an uncommon ancestral story by any means, complete with the obligatory scarcity of established facts. It is in reality but another thread in the fabric that makes up America and the American heritage, and part of the legacy that ties us to our European past. That we - looking back now - have such difficulties mending together all these bits and pieces that often comprise little more than a maddening patchwork of clues, may seem a bit surprising at first glance (more so since this 'crossing of the pond' occurred but a century and a half ago), but of course our immigrant ancestors had far headier things on their minds than preserving or detailing their family antecedence. At stake in these new and unfamiliar frontiers was their very survival. Now it falls upon us - from far more tranquil and established perches - to find that bridging to the past with whatever records and memorabilia we can gather together. How precious little seems to survive the ages!

Always take comfort in knowing that you are far from alone in this modern day conundrum. It will be for only the most determined that a breakthrough awaits though. For that reason alone, never give up!

Best regards, Jb

John,
in my reading of contemporary history and of that written much later, I do
not find that your characterizations of grief and trepidation were par for
the course. Of course there were losers in the upper classes but these
represent a very small proportion of society as a whole and did not
typically emigrate as they still had more then anybody else. I can not speak
for the southern German states as I'm not that familiar with their history
but in the north the drive for unification and nationalism was pretty much a
bottom up occurance. As a matter of fact, it represented a threat to the
established order and caused Prussia to back off with its support for the
wars against Denmark to help the Holsteiners gain their German freedom.
Popular uprisings during the mid 19th century were common and a continuous
threat to the autocratic governments of the time - including that of
Hannover. The powers-to-be liked their insular little local states but the
people did not. They wanted a united Germany and only Prussia could lead
such a state. I keep reading from you and Jane that a veritable revolt of
the people rose up against Prussia and as a result everybody ran off to
America. That is simply not true but I invite information to the contrary.
Emigration was made easier under Prussian governance. Rules
became enforceable as they now became one law across many former states with
different rules. That some folks didn't want to serve in the military and
rather emigrated is normal as the time served could ruin many plans. But it
was not specifically Prussian or military service in general that some
people tried to escape. Many quickly joined German units to fight for the
Union here in the states. Mostly the reasons for emigration were passed down
through the generations and something anti-Prussian or anti-German-military
served as a better reason than the real one: poverty and a quest for a
better life.

We need to always remember that by far most immigrants came from the
bottom barrel of society. They were the day laborers, the Heuerleute and
landless farmers whose main goal was to own some land anywhere they could
get it. The US was the best place to achieve that dream. Society was still
mostly rural and land ownership was at it's base.

Fred

John, In my reading of contemporary history and of that written much later, I do not find that your characterizations of grief and trepidation were par for the course.

It's all a matter of degree that is disputable in the end I suppose Fred. I thought I balanced the "push" and "pull" factors rather fairly and accurately when discussing Prussia vis-�-vis the Kingdom of Hannover and Lower Saxony. The Prussian military "factor" is often overplayed (even to this day) as you and I have both stated before. But it goes without saying that some Saxons, as well as other Germans, never fully aligned with Prussian aims. And this was not but a teeny tiny handful either, or just the Princes (and their underlings) of the resistance. The annexation was never a completely seamless process; many Saxons had no choice but to bite the bullet to some extent. But admittedly, the Prussians were not exactly foreign conquerors either, but more like distant cousins who came a knocking. Many Saxons did embrace the new order, and it has to be emphasized clearly that Bismarck tapped from a growing nationalistic spirit that was clearly manifest throughout Germany at the time. He did not create this on his own, or out of a vacuum.

A few points to consider though. General von Arentschildt and his forces fought gallantly and in pitched battle, and their throwing in the flag as quickly as they did had less to do with their hearts not being in resisting the Prussia intrusion as much as it did with the realization that their outright destruction was at hand. Moltke and Falckenstein had bought time and cleverly surrounded them with two massive armies (Generals von Goeben, von Manteuffel and von Beyer and their troops were all in the vicinity). Continued resistance was no longer in the cards. The Saxon soldiers - like Hannoverians in general - may not have been all that crazy for King George, but they appeared in no hurry to embrace the King of Prussia either, and were in fact urging their Bavarian allies to link up to carry the battle further.

Also, in all fairness, I mentioned there was a -measure- of trepidation and resentment on the part of many Germans when the Prussians were on the march throughout the 1860's, but this only stands to reason. Northerners did emigrate in increased numbers at this time, and many letters can be found of emigrants who had no intention of letting their sons serve or die under the expanding Prussian banner. Whether it was outright opposition to Bismarck and the King of Prussia, or weariness with war in general, is debatable, but I suspect it was a little of both.

By far the largest number of German immigrants who went to America and elsewhere were in search of an improved standard of living. That is beyond question, in 1870 as it was 100 years earlier, and a hundred years later. Far fewer went seeking political or religious freedoms, though of course some did. But I'm not sure how you can argue that the threat of Prussian military service - ultimately with the goal of its avoidance - did not motivate many Germans, the Saxons as much as anybody as they certainly lost out as much as any state at the time of the Prussian incorporation. The Hannoverian Army was a hotbed of disgruntlement for years thereafter, and that has certainly been documented. It took Wilhelm II to right some of these perceived wrongs a generation later, as I mentioned in an earlier post.

Of course there were losers in the upper classes but these represent a very small proportion of society as a whole and did not typically emigrate as they still had more then anybody else.

Yes of which my own family was one, only they did apparently feel the need / necessity to emigrate. Perhaps more of an exception to the rule even amongst the landed classes, but obviously it still happened, as my own kin are proof.

I can not speak for the southern German states as I'm not that familiar with their history but in the north the drive for unification and nationalism was pretty much a bottom up occurance. As a matter of fact, it represented a threat to the established order and caused Prussia to back off with its support for the wars against Denmark to help the Holsteiners gain their German freedom. Popular uprisings during the mid 19th century were common and a continuous threat to the autocratic governments of the time - including that of Hannover. The powers-to-be liked their insular little local states but the people did not. They wanted a united Germany and only Prussia could lead such a state.

This states it well and quite accurately. Only the choice of Prussia to lead the way - which was inevitable really, given no other state was capable of lighting the way at that junction - was not necessarily "the peoples choice" across the board (even if it was pretty much a fait accompli at the time). Not sure if Prussia would ever have accomplished this in and by itself without the remarkable abilities of Bismarck leading the charge. More would do well to read up on the man -- there is much more to the story than first meets the eye. He was a brilliant tactician and strategist, and many of his reforms last to this day (and rightly so). He was also something of a reluctant conqueror when all was said and done, as opposed to say Hitler who more readily embraced the methods of aggrandizement, feeling the need for German expansion outwards was tantamount for Germany's long term survival and prosperity (hand in hand with the destruction of Communism).

I keep reading from you and Jane that a veritable revolt of the people rose up against Prussia and as a result everybody ran off to America. That is simply not true but I invite information to the contrary.

Well speaking only for myself (Jane you're on your own I'm afraid <g>), you are over-reading it then. I actually feared some on the list were going to say at some point WHO LET THAT BLOODY PREUSSEN JB ON OUR LIST TO BEGIN WITH! SAXONS UNITE! :slight_smile:
Kidding aside, if you read back on most of my posts regarding this subject over the last month or so, you will see I am simply acknowledging that some did, not all and certainly not the majority. I simply have tried to state the obvious, which is the new Prussian order came to be for a gamut of reasons (nationalism as much as any other), but it was not hammered into place amid adoring smiles and flag waving from one end of society to the other, even amongst the working classes. There was a degree of trepidation for some. The war with France and Napolean III may have been embraced by most Germans but certainly not everyone, and there were plenty of Saxons in particular shipping out to avoid serving in the army of Prussia. Do you really care to argue that?

Emigration was made easier under Prussian governance. Rules became enforceable as they now became one law across many former states with different rules.

They simply made it easier to do so within conformance of the law, where earlier many Germans had no choice but to seek passage with less regard to the existing (regional) statutes due to the hoops the governing authorities often put them through. At that time the grease of bribery - born of desperation - ran rampant. The Prussians, with typical Prussian efficiency, smoothed out a lot of these unnecessary kinks in the process. Of course it should be noted that many Germans who were destitute had their passage overseas paid by their local community to save the increasing costs to the public purse well before any Prussian reforms were ever enacted.

That some folks didn't want to serve in the military and rather emigrated is normal as the time served could ruin many plans. But it was not specifically Prussian or military service in general that some people tried to escape. Many quickly joined German units to fight for the Union here in the states. Mostly the reasons for emigration were passed down through the generations and something anti-Prussian or anti-German-military served as a better reason than the real one: poverty and a quest for a better life.

One of the greatest high points in German immigration into the United States was during the period 1866-1873, the years which saw the emergence of Prussia as the dominant state in the German lands and the series of wars against Austria, Denmark and France, culminating as we know in the proclamation of the German Empire in 1870/71. This increase in immigration was not a mere coincidence. And they were not all coming to join the Union Army. :slight_smile:

Beyond the conscription concerns and avoidance I already mentioned, the number of Catholic immigrants increased in rather dramatic numbers following Bismarck's Kulturkampf (1871-1887) during the power struggle between the Prussian state and the Catholic church. Likewise, Bismarck's Anti-Socialist Laws (1878-1890) caused quite a few Social Democrats to move to the States to pursue their political agendas (and for some, continue their "class struggle"). It was not just a tiny portion of the landed class who lost out or shoved off.

The main reason in fact that emigration curtailed as time went on after the German Empire was founded had more to do with the spread of industrialization and the rapid growth of German cities (and thus an increase of opportunities) than Prussian reforms alone, or a wholesale embracing of the new order. More people who may have otherwise chosen to emigrate went instead to these large cities and industrial towns that were now rapidly expanding, rather than to America or beyond.

Whether "push factors," fanned by disgruntlement with the Prussian way of running things, and/or living conditions in general in Germany, or whether "pull factors" -- faith in more favorable opportunities in the United States -- exercised a greater influence on many emigrant's decision to leave, is impossible to ascertain. Somewhere in between lies the answer no doubt.

We need to always remember that by far most immigrants came from the bottom barrel of society. They were the day laborers, the Heuerleute and landless farmers whose main goal was to own some land anywhere they could get it. The US was the best place to achieve that dream. Society was still mostly rural and land ownership was at it's base.

Fred

Could not agree more. Your post is well written as usual. But then we actually agree on most things, as I have come to see. :wink: Perhaps more to the point (and as I stated before), to know Germany is to know Prussia, and vice-versa.

Jb

I have really enjoyed reading these posts with historical content. Can any
of you give me a list of suggested readings to learn more? Thanks in
advance.

Janice

As with any larger-than-life historical figure, you would do well to read a few different accounts to get a fuller (and by extension, less biased) picture. Much of my reading on the Iron Chancellor reverts from a few years back I'm afraid, so I can't vouch for each and every edition below (or even recall precisely which I read necessarily), but suffice to say there is worthy material to be found within the ones listed. Many of these can be found at any decent sized library, or per online bookstores like Amazon or Powells, etc.

The A.J.P Taylor edition I recall as being surprisingly even handed and thorough, though he can often be a bit of a reactionist in his criticisms of things overtly German or Germanic (curse his misguided soul). David Williamson is a lecturer (saw him once in person actually, even challenged him on a point or two) and former head of History and Politics at Highgate School. He writes extensively on matters relating to German history. Louis Snyder was Professor [Emeritus] of History at City University in NYC at one time. I read Erich Eyck's edition when I was much younger. It is a highly detailed work and I believe translated from the Dutch, which can sometimes lead to a bit of fragmentation with certain phrases here and there from the original. He is something of an Anglophile I recall (something our lovely Rena will no doubt appreciate). Bismarck's Authentic Biography is on another dimension altogether, an accounting from last century and heavily adorned with sketches by noted German artists.

The problem with many historians of course is the biases they can't help but exhibit (or attempt to disguise). It is hard to be truly objective - even with concerted effort - for any of us, as it practically betrays our preconceptions and value systems. This is also true of authors, though many work hard at giving as fair a hearing as possible to the subject at hand. Sadly, when it comes to practically any modern historical figure, you will find many who see only what they want to see - a Machiavellian twist behind every action, a sardonic or cynical rejoinder to explain every initiative undertaken or attempted. Looking past the author's description, you often wonder how these individuals got to be famous at all! Fortunately this is not true of every scribe who gets published, but one reason why certain authors of less renown often make for surprisingly good - or at a minimum, thought engendering - reads, when you can find them (whereas the large publishing houses often dismiss the unwashed as little more than heretical revisionists).

As I see it, this often this comes down to how much the chronicler appreciates men of action or change, the disruptors of the status quo and terrible simplifiers, as opposed to those of more measured rhetoric and reason (though both naturally have their place). As we all have seen, when the two crash head on, sparks tend to fly. And if they should ever come together in a synthesized package as they occasionally do (and moreover, should the times in question allow for their entrance upon center stage), fireworks of a grander nature are almost sure to follow. Such was the case with Otto von Bismarck. The father and towering figure of the modern German nation to some, repressor and last representative of the world of the ancient r�gimes to others.

Enjoy the read; it will certainly be worth the time invested. Of course almost anything is, once you look past Hollywood for the more illuminating story. :slight_smile: Jb

Otto von Bismarck

John describes history and Bismark in a broad sense about the German
nation state. Here is a quick look at a historical novel written only
a few years after 1866 and by a participant in the affairs of the
times:

Erinnerungen eines deutschen Offiziers 1848-1871
Aus zwei annectirten Ländern

Julius Hartmann, Lt. Gen. Royal Prussian forces
1884

A biographical novel with incidental characters in fictional names but
using real famous persons to bind the whole topic together.

"Ich wollte in novellistischer Form den Zeitraum schildern, wie ich
ihn erlebt habe"

Meine erste Absicht war zu erzählen, wie sich in dem mir lieben
Hannover die verhängnißvollen Ereignisse des Jahres 1866 allmählich
bereiteten und wie meine, dennoch überraschten, kernigen Landsleute
ihnen begegnete. Als diese Darstellung unter dem Titel: "Aus zwei
annectirten Ländern" in der Deutschen Rundschau Beifall gefunden,
entschloß ich mich, das ganze Buch zu veröffentlichen, um zu zeigen,
wie schwer, aber auch wie lohnend der Übergang aus der kleinen Heimath
in fremde, große Verhältnisse für das Gemüht des Annectirten war und
wie beglückt sich diejenigen fühlten, welche an der Einigung der
Nation mitarbeiteten.

Hartmann describes his life (born 1838 in Stade) as grew up, went to
school and the military academy in Hannover. He eventually joined the
Prussian army to become a Lt. General. The description is full of the
intrigues between England via the Royal family, Hanover and Austria
and those favoring Prussia. There are spies and religious zealots and
anti-catholicism. The connection with RC Austria was much despised as
Hanover considered itself a Protestant country. Rumors abounded that
even the queen would turn Catholic just to continue to rule and not
give up the throne. Neighboring Prussia was feared by the royal family
and all attempts at union were sabotaged while far away Austria, safe
and for the status quo, was made into an unnatural friend. The people
did not appreciate the connection. German nationalism was burning in
their souls from the writings of Kleist, Heine, Schiller and many
others:

„It was Germany's writers, such as HEINRICH VON KLEIST and HÖLDERLIN
who appealed to the Germans to resist the French, declaring the French
the archenemy. When Napoleon's GRANDE ARMEE was almost annihilated at
the BERESINA in 1812, thousands of German burghers and students
volunteered to fight in the WARS OF LIBERATION (1813). They expected
their effort to be rewarded, demanded a written constitution and
German unification. However, at the VIENNA CONGRESS (1813-15), where
the new world order was shaped, royalty was represented, not the
burghers. Post-Napoleonic Germany consisted of ca. 40 states, among
them great powers such as Austria and Prussia, and statelets such as
Sachsen-Weimar-Eisenach. 4 were republics, the others monarchies. The
monarchies regarded liberals and nationalists as subversive elements;
written constitutions did not materialize, but secret police did,
their first charge being to prevent another revolution.

German nationalists had supported the Polish rebellion (against
Russia) of 1830-1831. However, political organizations and political
discussions in public were prohibited. VEREINE (clubs, societies) such
as choral societies or sports clubs were founded, nationalistic in
character. At sessions, the local policeman had to be present to take
notes. In such an atmosphere, many burghers, disappointed from
politics, withdrew into private life. Such men were called BIEDERMANN,
honest (dull, lethargic, unpolitical) man. Political activists often
went into exile, writer HEINRICH HEINE to France, philosopher KARL
MARX to London.

Then, in 1840, France's parliament openly discussed to extend the
French border to the Rhine, which meant the annexation of most of
Prussia's RHEINPROVINZ. The newspaper reports about the debate stirred
up national sentiment in an instant. Germans were aware of their
military weakness - Austria had not won a war on it's own since 1718,
Prussia not since Frederick the Great (1740-1786). Again, writers
appealed to the Germans to prepare themselves for armed resistance.
Songs like the GUARD ON THE RHINE (1840)
http://ingeb.org/Lieder/esbraust.html and the SONG OF THE GERMANS
(Deutschlandlied, 1841) http://ingeb.org/Lieder/deutschl.html became
popular instantly. The French did not extend their border to the
Rhine. However, the spirit they had kindled was to haunt them for the
next century.
German nationalism from the start was associated with militarism and
strength. The writers regarded military strength as a precondition for
the unification yearned for. However, this very unification was
regarded as a threat by Prussia (with two Polish provinces, West
Prussia and Posen), and even more by Austria (a state dominated by a
German administration, ruling over Hungarians, Poles, Czechs, Slovaks,
Walachians, Italians, Croats etc.).

Early German nationalism was subversive (toward the number of German
states and statelets), whom most nationalists or patriots attempted to
defeat by ignoring them, by banning the princes into the sphere of the
fairy tales (this may have been a purpose behind the publication of
Grimm's Fairytales); some, such as student Karl von Sand (1819), by
violent action (he killed Russian diplomat August von Kotzebue). Most
patriots of the early 19th century envisioned a German nation state as
a desirable alternative to a police state denying its inhabitants most
civic rights. Liberals and nationalists (or patriots) largely pursued
the same goals, mainly differing in their priorities."

It could be argued that Hartmann wrote as a Prussian officer and
attempted to justify Prussian actions in retrospect. Yet, he writes in
a period where the Reich had formed and a parliament was fully
functional as an elective body. The power of the monarchy was
declining into a constitutional government. The turmoil from below was
always there. The genie had been left out of the bottle.

He gives us a view from close up in time and space. Hanover was his
Heimat and he clearly wished his home region well in a united Germany.
He argues that all was for the best by far. It can remind us of the
difficulties our early united states had visa vie a strong central
goverment and states rights. The struggle continues to this day.

Fred

Hiyas,

Firstly, I apoligize for these remarks..

Then, there was a French-German War of 1870-1871. After this war, when Bismarck really started prosecutions of Polish, it was a beginning, as I mentioned, of the huge inflow of Polish immigrants to the United States, especially to the cities of: Buffalo, Toledo, Detroit, Chicago and Milwaukee. They were mostly veterans of the French-German war, some of them even from the Danish war and Austrian war. Almost all Radom colonists were among those newcomers.

(They were from a jubilee book about St. Michael The Archangel Church in Radom, Washington, Illinois.)

Thanks so much for the thoughts and list of books. I'll try my local
library first and see if I have any luck.

Janice