Ferdinand und Gertrud Oppermann aus Hannover

hannover-l
1

Liebe Mitforscher,

   in einem Brief meiner Grosstante lass ich gestern von Ferdinand und
   Gertrud Oppermann aus Hannover, die eine "weitlaeufige Verwandtschaft"
   von meiner Grosstante gewesen sein sollen. Der Zeitraum ist ca. 1900
   bis 1920, da meine Grosstante dann ausgewandert ist; sie lebte
   ausserdem nur bis 1914 in Hannover (Linden).

   Hat hier zufaellig jemand einen passende Familie in seinen Daten? Es
   gab leider sehr viele Oppermanns in Hannover (habe im Adressbuch 1934
   nachgesehen) und ich habe keine weiteren Angaben.

   Viele Gruesse

   Petra

2

Hallo Petra,

meine Hannoveraner Oppermann werden h�chstwahrscheinlich nicht passen.
Der Ordnung halber, gibt es aber trotzdem eine kleine Info von mir.

Meine Oppermann haben in die Familie Pfennig und L�cke eingeheiratet und kommen aus Goddelsheim. Sie lebten dann seit ca. 1800 in Pattensen und Hannover.

Liebe Gr��e
Marc

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----

3

Hallo Petra,

bei Oppermann hast du einen schwierigen aber auch einfachen Namen in Arbeit.

Meine Mutter ist eine geborene Oppermann. Die Linie stammt aus Lerbach bei Osterode.

Vor einer ganzen Weile habe danach geforscht und festgestellt, dass der Name örtlich begrenzt ist. Das soll heißen, dass deine aus Hannover sehr wahrscheinlich nichts mit meinen aus Lerbach zu tun haben. Denn von der Namensherkunft (so habe ich es recherchiert) hatte jede Kirche ihren Opfermann, der die Kollekte eingesammelt hat, vielleicht auch der Küster.

1914 ist natürlich eine Zeit, da können die Gesuchten von überall kommen (vielleicht dann doch meine Linie?).

Vom Gefühl her bleibt dir wohl nur der Weg zum Standesamt (*ab ca. 1900) oder zum zuständigen Archiv (*vor ca. 1900), wo die Standesamtsbücher einsehbar sind. Vielleicht ist die Suche der Heirat vor 1914 sinnvoller, die wären auch beim zuständigen Archiv.

Sonst hätte ich auch keinen anderen Ansatz.

Gruß Günter

Günter Bassen
Westend 6
27419 Klein Meckelsen

Suche in Deutschland: Bassen, Jagels
OFB Rotenburg online: Online Ortsfamilienbuch Rotenburg (Wümme)

Klein Meckelsen: 2001 Bundessieger "Unser Dorf soll schöner werden"
http://www.klein-meckelsen.de/
Mein Verein: http://www.sv-ippensen.de/

----- Original Nachricht ----

4

Hallo petra,

ich würde mich - weil der Ansatz fehlt - um Meldekarteien bemühen, wenn vorhanden. Stadtarchiv Hannover ? Auf den Meldekarten ist häufig Geburtsdatum und Herkunft belegt. So kenne ich das aus Göttingen.

Viel Erfolg

Gruß Wolfgang

Wolfgang F. Nägeler
Grasweg 15
37627 Stadtoldendorf
Tel+Fax 05532 504996

5

Hallo Marc, Guenter, Wolfgang,
   vielen Dank fuer Eure Infos und Tipps. Ich habe gerade noch mal meine
   Daten durchgesehen:

   Der Vater meiner Grosstante ist aus Boehmen nach Hannover gekommen, die
   erste Ehefrau aus Ostfriesland. Die zweite Ehefrau Auguste Lueders
   (meine Linie) kam aus Wiedensahl. Die Schwestern Juliane und Minna
   heirateten einen Rhode bzw. Hesse. Ich nehme an, dass daher irgdenwie
   die Verbindung zur Familie Oppermann bestehen muss. Vielleicht hat
   jemand Rhode oder Hesse aus Hannover in seinen Daten?

   Viele Gruesse

   Petra

6

Liebe Mitleser,

der Familienname OPPERMANN kommt auch in Liebenburg, Nordharz, vor.
Dazu gibt es auch eine kuriose Geschichte:
Die Marie Eleonore Oppermann (21.06.1852 - 08.10.1913) aus Gro�-D�hren-Liebenburg
bekam zwischen 1872 und 1889 insgesamt 7 Kinder mit einem Carl San(d)str�m,
geb. am 1.04.1847 in Womarburg, Skandinavien (m�glicherweise Schweden).

Carl war jedes Jahr als Erntehelfer jeweils f�r einige Monate im Raum Liebenburg
besch�ftigt. Geheiratet wurde jedoch nie; er wurde als Erzeuger eingetragen und
bei einem Kind erschien er sogar pers�nlich vor dem Standesbeamten, um die neuerliche
Geburt eines Kindes anzuzeigen.

Laut Meldebuch Gro�-D�hren hat er sich das letzte Mal abgemeldet am 17. Okt. 1910!!!

Man hat nie herausgefunden, wohin er nach der Saison verschwand und warum
eine Ehe nicht vollzogen wurde.

Sind jemanden die Umst�nde bekannt? Ich w�rde gerne mehr dazu erfahren.
Vielen Dank im voraus.
Viele Gr��e

Horst (Semmling)

-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----

7

Hallo,
Der Name Oppermann ist doch wohl recht h�ufig. Der Name ist vielen Familien zuzuordnen und regional sehr verbreitet. In jeder Kirche der fr�hen Zeiten gab es einen Opfermann oder verf�lscht Oppermann, der f�r die Kirche t�tig war. In meiner Vorfahrenlinie habe ich Oppermann von 1540 bis ca. 1800 in verschiedenen St�dten und Gemeinden im Raum Alfeld, Hildesheim, Hannover. Etliche der Oppermann waren auch Pastoren und h�her in Hildesheims Kirchen und den Kirchen umliegender Orte. Viele der Oppermann sind in den Leichenpredigten zu finden.
Freundliche Gr��e
Rainer [D�rry]

8

Hallo liebe Mitforschende,

ich bin auf der Suche nach einer Möglichkeit eine möglichst kostenfreie Kopie eines Hochzeitseintrages des Standeamtes Pancras/London zu erhalten.

Weiß jemand, ob diese Hochzeitseinträge online sind? Es geht um das Jahr 1900, vermutlich September.

Viele Grüße

Petra

9

Hello Petra,

It would help if you gave the name of the person you are looking for. Do you know which church or registry office in St Pancras/London ares where the marriage in 1900 took place?

In most cases there are only indexes online for free you will have to purchase the marriage certificate.

There are some marriage transcripts available online from several subscription organizations such as Findmypast, The Genealogist UK and Ancestry from some parishes, without a name it is impossible to search.

As a member of the Anglo German Society in London I can check to see if another member is researching the person/family you are interested in. They may have the information you require.

Please send names dates of the family you are looking for in England.

You can reply in German if it is easier for you.

Elizabeth

10

Hello Elizabeth,
   thank you very much for your answer and the kind offer.
   I am looking for the marriage of Josef Alschner and Auguste Lueders.
   They traveled to London to get married, because Josef was catholic and
   divorced. He was born in Bohemia but lived in Hannover since circa
   1875. Auguste was born in Wiedensahl (Germany) and was Protestant.
   A member of another mailing list once send me this index entry:
   District Pancras, Volume 1 b and page 338. The index was entitled
   "Marriages registered in August, July and September 1900".

   Best wishes

   Petra

11

Hello Petra,

The reference you have been given is from the General Register Office in London, if you wish to purchase this marriage certificate by ordering online it will cost UK �9-25 = �11-00 and you can pay by credit card go to:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

Just follow the links, you need to give some details, if you have a problem contact me again and I will try and advise you further.

GRO Reference: Marriage: Josef Alschner and Auguste Luders, September Quarter, District Pancras, Vol.1b, Page 338. (Luders is the English spelling on the index)

However I must advise you that the information supplied on the British marriage certificates aren't usually as informative as church records were in 1900, just as follows:

Names of the bride & groom, place where the marriage was performed, occupation, age, place of birth, address where they were living at the time of their marriage, father of the groom's name, father of the bride's name and very little else.

You may have all this information anyway. It's a pity they weren't married in one of the German churches in London.

I also have in my personal library on micro fiche indexes to the marriages held at "St Paul's German Reformed Church" in London for 1900 unfortunately they are not listed. Marriage indexes to St George's Lutheran Church in London only go to 1896. See history of German churches in London:

http://www.stgite.org.uk/media/germanchurches.html

My guess they were married privately or perhaps in one of the registry offices,for the reasons you gave.

I have checked the other sites I mentioned previously and was unable to find a full marriage transcription online, only the GRO Index details.

If by chance they were married in a church it would be necessary to know the name of the church and the parish. Perhaps then I could check the LDS (Mormons) "Familysearch" to see if the marriages had been filmed for that parish in London. Any marriages performed privately or by a registry official were unlikely to be filmed by the LDS.

Please let me know if I can help any further. I have purchased many certificates online from the GRO and the service is very good, be sure to give the correct details if you decide to order.

Kindest regards,

Elizabeth

12

Hello Elizabeth,

   thank you very much for your broad answer!

   You are right, I have most of the information, this is why I hesitate
   ordering the certificate. The only information
   missing is the percise date of marriage and the place where the
   marriage was performed.

   After reading your answer I was thinking about the marriage in one of
   the registration offices. Why did they travel to GB? I think this kind
   of marriage would have been possible in Germany, wasn't it? Perhaps you
   or some other member of this list can explain this to me?

   As far as I know they traveled to London, got married and traveled back
   to Hannover. The first child of this marriage was born in August 1901
   in Linden (today part of Hannover). Before the marriage Josef lived in
   Linden (adress book 1900) and it was the same after the marriage
   (adress book 1901).

   Best

   Petra

13

Hello Petra,

As far as I know the catholic priests would not marry a divorced person in the catholic church at that time. If a divorced catholic wished to re-marry a non catholic the marriage must be performed in another church.

Perhaps Josef and Auguste wished to marry elsewhere other than Germany for personal/private reasons. My understanding is that in 1900 there were regular shipping services between England & Germany, in fact several voyages daily and it was easy to travel to England and back to Germany again within a short period.

Many German businessmen, merchants, tradesmen and professionals made frequent trips to England and returned to Germany within a few days.

Perhaps they had friends living in the German community in London and these friends knew which pastor might perform a marriage service for them either in a non catholic church or privately.

There are so many possibilities. Unfortunately there were very few passenger lists kept for these short journeys to the UK from European ports, so it isn't possible to check.

Do you know if any other close family members/relatives had interests in England or lived within the German community in London? If you have other family names I can check the UK census.

I hope answers some of your questions.

Kindest regards,

Elizabeth

14

Hello Elizabeth,

   I think they had no family members or relatives in England. Josefs two
   sisters died in Bohemia in 1865 and 1872 and his father died in 1874.
   Auguste had two sisters:
   Juliane - she married Franz Rhode and I have an adress in Hannover
   (from 1941)
   Minna - she married Mr. Hesse (don't know his first name).

   I suppose I will never solve this puzzle :frowning:
   But I am happy to know that they really got married in London, because
   this story was told in my family for many years, but nobody was sure
   about the correctness.

   Best wishes,

   Petra

15

Gesendet: Mittwoch, 26. Maerz 2014 um 15:47 Uhr
Von: Elizabeth <aliens@bigpond.net.au>
An: Hannover-L <hannover-l@genealogy.net>
Betreff: Re: [HN] Hochzeitseintrag aus London Standesamt Pancras

(portion of above message dealing with ship travel has been copied below)

"My understanding is that in 1900 there were regular shipping services between England & Germany, in fact several voyages daily and it was easy to travel to England and back to Germany again within a short period.

"Many German businessmen, merchants, tradesmen and professionals made
frequent trips to England and returned to Germany within a few days.......

......... "There are so many possibilities. Unfortunately there were very few
passenger lists kept for these short journeys to the UK from European
ports, so it isn't possible to check."

YES! It went on for centuries! And German ports founded the Hanseatic League for active trading and travel and prosperity in all the western European countries.

Also, the British and the Dutch had trans-Atlantic travel long before the Germans,

and they protected those franchises with great zeal!

Most of our pre-1900 German and Eastern European immigrants to the USA took little ships from Bremerhavn or Hamburg to London or Liverpool --- and there boarded the larger British passenger ships for the trans-Atlantic crossing.

When Germans finally got into the trans-Atlantic passenger business and sought harbor sites in NYC, the British and Dutch companies bought up all remaining harbor properties on the east side of NY harbor (state of New York) and the Germans had to go across the bay to Jersey City, in the State of New Jersey, on the westside of New York harbor, in order to build their own embarkation and disembarkation facilities.

Many of them, like my own Hannovarians, just stayed there in Jersey City and prospered. Prior to the rebuilding of Chicago after the great fire in the 1870s, Jersey City was America's second-largest city until the 1880s!

The new German passenger lines also took many immigrants to Baltimore --- and to New Orleans, where they could catch riverboats all the way up to places like St. Louis and Cincinnati.