Barbara
I've tried to the websites you provided to Bob but have been denied access to the Index page. Any suggestion?
Max
Hello Max,
I don't know why you can't get the Index page. We have looked at the
archives before and there is no Julius Burgdorf listed in any of the 3
areas. There are other Burgdorfs, but no one by the name of Julius.
I'm sorry,
Barbara
Hi Max:
I just tried the URL right off your e-mail to the list. It worked, listing 27+- Burgdorf's, a lot of whom were from Peine?
Barbaras instructions are good. I removed the <<<>>> that come from the string and added " " to the words which you want to use or click.
Try it again.
Gale
Barbara
I've tried to the websites you provided to Bob but have been denied access to the Index page. Any suggestion?
Max
http://app.staatsarchive.niedersachsen.de/findbuch/
It is a little confusing to use, especially if you don't
know German.
On the first page:
Choose one of the three locations on the bar
Click "Abschicken"
Go to "Index" in the middle of the page and click
Fill in the surname you are looking for in the box
"Suchbegriff"
Choose "ort Personen" where it says "nach Ort" (Pull down)
Click on "Suchen starten" and you will get a list of
persons who emigrated from Germany with that name. Or
you may get nothing!
Try all the same for a search on all 3 locations.
Note the number on the right column. That number will
direct you to the town. Click on a name that matches a
person you are looking for and you will get a code that
will be what you use to order the record.
I've been following the emigration archives exchange and searched for my Benecke family -- and may have found them! Now I'm wondering how to be reasonably sure that this is the correct family, and how do I order the record.
My ancestor who came to America was Johann Henry Benecke, who came to Minnesota in 1883. His parents were from Eddelstorf and were married at Altmendingen. His wife and children came with him. Around the same time, whether it was on the same ship or not I don't know, his mother-in-law Margarethe Backhaus came to America. She was from Bornsen, and I have birthplaces for two of her children as Natendorf and Gruensvolde. I know that some of these place names may be towns, some areas, and some churches -- as a side note, if anyone can clarify all of that, I'd be grateful!
On to what I found in the archives -- There is a Johann Heinrich Benecke 10899 Hanover, Hann 74 Medingen No. 130. There is a Margarethe Backhaus 10883 Hanover, Hann 74 Medingen No. 133. I've not come across "Medingen" before, but having the two names with the numbers so close together seems to me as though these people could be my ancestors.
I've not heard anything about these emigration archives prior to the emails that have been sent the past day or two, so would appreciate anyone helping me out.
Thanks!
Lila
Can anyone tell me what the cost is to order records?
I ordered 1 set and it cost $40. The sad [part was it wasn't the
relative I was seeking.I wasted the money.
So be very sure.
Rita Broeker
Missouri
Hello Lila,
Regarding the towns you mention, they are all in the area of
Medingen:
They are all south of Lüneburg and near Bad Bevensen:
Altmedingen should be Altenmedingen
Eddelstorf
Natendorf
Gruensvolde - I can't find this one - probably wrong spelling or so
small it isn't on the map - I'll look further
Bornsen
Is Johann Heinrich's wife on the list? If not and you are very
sure they came together, I would question whether you have the right guy.
Unless, he came by himself first and then sent for his wife and children.
That was a common thing to do. Did you notice that there was a Johann
Heinrich Ludwig Backhaus with the #10882? That could be Margarethe's
husband or brother. ?
Have you ever considered a different spelling? I looked at
Benekes without the C. Names could be changed when filing for citizenship.
Before ordering the records, you should look at the LDS films for
these towns, although there isn't anything very helpful.
I'm playing the devil's advocate here. I'd clear up the question
about the wife before ordering records. She should be listed if they came
together. However, not everybody's ancestors are on these lists!
Good luck,
Barbara
Barbara,
Thanks for the help. The Beneckes do spell their name without the "c" today. I have the trunk that Johann Heinrich brought to America with him. It has painted on the front "H. Benecke, New Albin, Stat Iova, North Amerika" which is why I've been spelling the name with a "c" in Germany. I grew up on the farm that he and his family came to just north of the Iowa/Minnesota state line. I have several pictures of the family, but not a lot of information to go with them.
When he came to America, he used the name "Henry", but his name in his obituary is written as Johann Henry. I also have a letter from a distant relative who did some research several years ago. It is from Jurgen Ritter, Pinkenburger Str. 19F, 30655 Hannover doing research for “Niedersachsischer Landesverein Fur Familienkunde e.V” and was written in 1997. That lists Johann Heinrich as a child of Heinrich Christoph Behnecke and Maria Margaretha Geffert, who both died in Germany, as did a brother and sister of Johann. There are no other children listed.
I also know that his wife, Elizabeth Backhaus Benecke, came over with him, and as I said earlier, her mother Margaretha Kohlmeyer Backhaus came either with them or around the same time. They also had 4 children, William, Henry, Herman and Gustav. Gustav was 2 years old and died on the voyage. My mom remembers being told that he was buried in New York because they were close to America when he died, so he was not buried at sea. I have never been able to find out anything else about their voyage, other than they arrived here in 1883.
As you can probably tell, I've not done research outside of the US before, and not much in the US either. I have the church records from here for baptisms, confirmations, etc. of their children, and their deaths, and have gotten some place names from those, which you responded to in another email.
It sound from others (thanks Rita and Jane!) like the records are rather expensive to order, and they very likely aren't mine. Somewhere I got the impression that the wife and children weren't listed by themselves on those lists, but would be included under the husband -- not sure where that idea came from.
So, if you or anyone has any ideas of where to go from here, I'd like hearing from you again! Thanks again for your help.
Lila
Hello Lila,
Someone had written on the list that Hannover archives charged 19E
per quarter hour. If you only wanted one record, that ought to be found
pretty easily.
Before doing that, you could write to the Hannover archives and ask
them if the wife and children were listed separately. You could also ask
them what year the Johann Heinrich emigrated from Medingen. Maybe they
would tell you that without charge. You have nothing to lose.
Do a lot of Google searches with different combinations of words. I
just did one for "Benecke Altenmedingen" and found this. You might be
interested in this website. There's a lot to read there and you can post
something yourself. There must be a reference to Altenmedingen there
someplace:
www.benecke.com/theclan.html
You might look here for some immigrant ship listings for Benecke:
http://www.CastleGarden.org/
Also, http://www.immigrantships.net/ has tons of shiplists and more
are added all the time.
I don't know the wife's name - here is a listing from 1883 with some
Beneckes listed:
ISTG Vol 4 - SS Hammonia
To find pedigrees look here: http://geneanet.org/
Obviously, if you cannot find the church records available, you are
going to have to search other ways. It can be done, but it is so much
harder. You could probably write to churches, etc. The Beneckes will be
scattered over all those towns in that area. An important town is (Bad)
Bevensen which is a bit larger. Look here and you will see what church
records are in that area:
http://www.hist.de/ybevensen.htm
Use the LDS site often. They have some film for some of the towns, but none
are very helpful. You should run a search at the LDS for Johann Benecke
(with no dates) and you will be surprised how many there are, with lots of
variations in spelling. There are some mentioned in Bevensen and maybe
others in the area. I just looked at it very quickly.
Happy hunting!
Barbara
Hi all,
Might anyone have any idea if it was common for young women to travel alone, without ANY relatives, to the US in the mid-1800s? My great-great-grandmother, Dorothea Christiane Hoffmann b.Aug. 1821 in Norden, immigrated in 1848 and is listed by herself with no known relatives. There is another young single woman on the passenger list next to her, but unknown if they were traveling together. As an aside, she met my gr-gr-grandfather, Christoph Hartmann b.1820 in Veckenstedt bei Wernigerode, Sachsen-Anhalt, who was traveling with his two brothers and their families, and they married shortly after landing.
The family story is that she was from a well-to-do family in Norden, and her family was displeased with her romantic involvement with someone they considered unworthy, and so sent her to the US. If so, wouldn't they have sent her with someone, or TO someone? Supposedly they also sent her with a trunkful of silver and beautiful linens....
Thoughts, anyone?
Thank you!
Bonnie Hartmann
Laguna Beach, California
The only one town Norden is located in north-east of Germany close to the North-Sea (Frisian area).
The phone directory shows there a lot of Hoffmann addresses.
Werner
Hi Bonnie:
Some thoughts, not related to each other:
First, if she was alone with a trunk of valuables, I would think that she might "jump ship" somewhere unless her family saw her off and made shure the ship was on its way and she was beyond the "point of no return".
Second, it appears that she soon forgot about her former romantic involvement.
Third, have you ever checked out the other female passenger to see where she came from?
Fourth, if she was sent with a trunk of goodies, I would believe that further provisions had been made.
Gale
Hi Bonnie,
this is an exciting story! I do not think it was common for woman to travel alone at that time. So you should be right there might be a very special reason.
I think you know your ancestors (Hartmann family) in Germany? There is a lot of information on the Mormons' webside "familysearch".
Regards,
Albert (Emmerich)
from Cremlingen / Germany
"Bonnie Hartmann" <Gidget398@cox.net> schrieb:
My great-grandmother traveled alone at age 17 to New York in 1859. The
family story is that she went as an indentured servant. The plan was for the
rest of the family to leave 2 yrs later and they would be going to Missouri.
Then she would travel from New York and meet up with the family. This was a
way to secure enough funds for the whole family to immigrate. Perhaps there
are other similar stories as many of the immigrants were from rural areas
where funds for the trip were hard to come by.
If one takes a look at some of the passenger lists you can see many young
men and women traveling with no apparent family with them.
Paul Scheele
Hi Albert, Gale, and Werner, and all,
Yes, I do have my Hartmann ancestors back to Christoph born about 1714, married in 1744 in Veckenstedt bei Wernigerode. A wonderful elderly gentleman had gone through the old Veckenstedt church books and studied the families of the area. He gave me much information and I was able to follow up on more of my lines through the continued work of Alexander Niemann who has done much work in the old church records in that area, so I have been very blessed on my Hartmann side!
As far as my Christiane traveling alone....
I do not know if the story of her ill-fated romance in Germany was true, but my elderly relatives did claim she did come with a trunk with beautiful linens and silver, and that was their proof that the story was true. And I do know that Christoph came with his two married brothers and their families and the rest of his large family also emigrated within a space of time. Christoph and Christiane were not listed near each other on the passenger list. If she had been "engaged" to him, I would think she would be traveling with his family, and so listed with them.
Well, it is an interesting story, anyway!
I have checked the other Hoffmanns settled in the town (Sheboygan, Wisconsin), where she ended up and there is no apparent relation, as they are all Catholic and she was Reformed or Lutheran. I've also checked the records of the three churches in Norden which are available through LDS microfilm, but no Hoffmanns there, but I've been told there were six Lutheran churches in Norden and the other three were not microfilmed, so I will likely have to hire someone to check further.
I want to thank you all for writing. It is always interesting to get others' thoughts on something like this!
Bonnie Hartmann
Dear Bonnie,
Your story made me think of that movie "Far and Away" and the Nicole Kidman character and her silver spoons...
My grandmother Dora Schmidt imigrated alone in 1926 on the ship Duteschland........but my grandfather arranged her passage and was in New York anticipating her arrival.
Anna Potrafke, a sibling of gramps mom..... in 1895...traveled allone..but I believe she had Potrafke/Potrafka relatives in Decatur, Illinois to hook up with.
When I think of these women, or anyone leaving known for unknown..
Courage is what comes to mind.
If I may add my thoughts - I do not know where people get the idea that
single women did not travel or emigrate alone back in the mid 19th century.
The ship lists are full of single people as young as 10 years old. I believe
the old buggaboo of tranferring current thinking into the past must be at
play here. Besides, Ms Hoffmann was 27 years old (*1821, emigrated 1848). A
27 year old woman was in danger of being called an old maid back then. It
was way past marriage age. I'm sure she was on the prowl to link up with
someone as soon as possible especially in a strange and foreign place.
Now, as to the well-to-do family - it is again common in oral history to
hear of the prestige of our emigrant ancestors. They knew the kaiser and
tought his children or drove his coach and lived in a castle and on and on.
If they were male they usually were escaping military service only to
immediately enroll in the Union army. Let's face it most emigrants left home
for a better future. Most had little or nothing and could only expect
something, anything, better in a new country away from everything they held
dear in life. Many, many left to join friends, neighbors or relatives after
hearing their stories. Every young woman started to collect her dowry at a
very young age. A trunk full of 'things' would have been quite normal for a
27 year old. Every single woman had it. The women of the time would work for
years to assemble such treasures for the future household they all hoped to
have.
Those without financial resources would hire themselves out through an
agency of some sort and pay back whatever it took with their labor. A
sponsorship of sorts might be called indentured labor but basically it
enabled the fare for one who didn't have the money for the trip. Nothing out
of the ordinary here.
The current issue of annual publication of the Heimatverein Lohne (Band 5)
talks about Clemens August Trenkamp (1816-1880) being appointed the sole
agent for the Norddeutsche Lloyd for emigration in the towns of Dinklage,
Steinfeld, Holdorf and Lohne. He advertised in the local press: "daher
wollen Auswanderungslustige sich vertrauensvoll an mich wenden". He also
exchanged funds and lent moneys in advance of the trip for later repayment.
I presume this was not unique to these towns and that other agents did
similar things in their areas of influence.
The whole emigration issue is a complex subject not often open to simple
answers but a knowledge of the history of the time can always help understan
what may have happened back then. Unfortunately knowing that past involves a
search of the local and regional history which is mostly published in German
and can only be found by lots of reading in lots or sources. It's a tough
challenge.
Fred
730 5th St. NW
Naples, FL 34120
FredRump@gmail.com
The list patriarch weighs in! [some say GRUMP but I prefer RUMP <gr>]. I enjoyed your accounts from earlier today FR. Very well written.
Fred wrote:
Now, as to the well-to-do family - it is again common in oral history to hear of the prestige of our emigrant ancestors. They knew the Kaiser and taught his children or drove his coach and lived in a castle and on and on. If they were male they usually were escaping military service only to immediately enroll in the Union army. Let's face it most emigrants left home for a better future. Most had little or nothing and could only expect something, anything, better in a new country away from everything they held dear in life.
How true. It goes without saying that many, if not most, German emigrants had mixed feelings about relocating to places so far from the ancestral homes. And not all came with bright, shiny faces either! Desperation drove many; others simply dreamt of starting over in lands offering greater promise (never more true than when vast swaths of land in America, Canada, Australia, etc., were being settled and "civilized"), with the lure of private ownership, farming and big city enterprise.
These areas were still in developmental stages, with far less rules and restrictions in place for the newly arrived as opposed to where they signed off from (or even the America we know today). While politics, religion, servitude and military conscription DID factor in for a percentage of emigrants, the majority simply wanted to better their lives in areas offering greater chances of getting ahead. And while most came from rather simple and uneventful (let's say 'rustic' to color it nicely) beginnings implicit of rural birthrights, they (and their children) would go on to become the backbone of these emerging Western countries.
Fred further writes:
Those without financial resources would hire themselves out through an agency of some sort and pay back whatever it took with their labor. A sponsorship of sorts might be called indentured labor but basically it enabled the fare for one who didn't have the money for the trip. Nothing out of the ordinary here.
Another variation on the theme :: In our family four brothers came over as 'remittance men', at least if truth triumphs over fiction. It certainly appears someone, somewhere was helping sponsor them, as they set up a number of large and successful mining operations in early California (hydraulic, subterranean excavations). As the story goes, they were obligated to send back a share of their earnings (profits) to partners in Germany, and by all accounts did so. These brothers came from the Ruhr area and were obviously schooled in the craft of hydraulic mining, as opposed to the more predominant placer methods [pan-handling or sluicing] of the day.
Brigitte Jahnke wrote:
Fred was right, the 30 Years War (1618-1648) was a power struggle between different European coalitions. <snip>
Just like today religion and striving for power - also known as politics - got mixed up and the consequence was a war.
Like today, like yesterday, like before recorded time when we ran around in caves brandishing clubs and chewing on roots and bulbs. Life in the end is little more than a power struggle and exercise for survival, whether we care to see it or not. Religion and politics are merely symptoms behind this perennial anchor (abyss?). Moreover, we're not that far removed from the animals around us who now serve mostly to amuse (as opposed to earlier times when they were our immediate competition and bane of existence). This fact is often masked by our prodigious collective intellect, our many diversions, and (should I add the obvious?) the creature comforts we surround and cloak ourselves with. But if these were to be removed - as could be the case under extraordinary circumstances - this stark reality would come to the fore quite clearly again. War and disaster have a way of bringing this home with an exclamation point!
That said, Xmas :: Weihnachten :: Holiday greetings to all from the last of the heathens. Go Thor! (How's that for a signature?) 
Jb
I have some genealogical information sent to me from a person in Germany. I'm not sure exactly what the following means.
Mönkhoff (al. Picht (Meier)
Hans Herman
Evesen 4
*um 1662/63
meier a/Nr. 4
zu Evesen
gen. 1726
Evesen 4
#26.04.1746
My undestanding is that this indicates that Han Herman Mönkhoff was born in Evesen (house 4) in 1662/63 and that he died on 26 Apr 1746 in Evesen (house 4). But what does the (al. Picht (Meier) and meier a/Nr. 4 zu Evesen gen 1726 mean?
Thanks!
Joel
Dear Joel,
the following means:
Hans Herman M�nkhoff was born about 1662/63 in Evesen No. 4. He also was called Picht (what has do to with the name of the house he came from). I cannot exactly say whether another name was Meier or he was named Meier Picht. He was a farmer (=Meier) in Evesen No. 4 mentioned in 1726. He died in Evesen No. 4 at April 26th, 1746.
In Kleinenbremen, not far from Evesen, there is the M�nkhoff-M�hle (mill).
Hope this helps a little bit.
Merry Christmas to everyone and kindly regards from Germany,
Bj�rn