Hi Listers,
my two cents worth to the discussion thread. I am from Goettingen, right
around the corner from the Eichsfeld. Duderstadt of course is in the
Niedersachsen, Eichsfeld, very RC. near Protestant Göttingen, but the other part is in
Thuringa, not accessible to me after WW II, because the cold war created this
800 km long border right through Germany. When the border opened in '89, I
quickly flew home to Göttingen. and celebrated New Years Eve with the East
German border guards at the Eichsfeld border. The Eichsfelder could not believe
that I as a West German had been able to emigrate to Amerika legally w/o a
problem.
I came over in '64 as a young nurse into a Jewish household where they spoke
Hamburg German. The head of household, a Dr. who sponsored me, wanted a
German nurse for his wife, she was terminal and desired to die at home. The Rabbi
was not pleased, but otherwise, I was welcome there. When I later worked at
the local hospital in the OR, I was a novelty, the only foreign nurse in the
hospital at the time. They taught me English, helped with preparation for my
NYS nursing exams, and whenever there was a German patient in the hospital, I
was called out to meet my landsmen,(usually IBMers) or for translation.
But,on the other side of the coin, on numerous occasions I was called "Nazi",
never by co-workers, mostly by patients. That hurt. Most recently just two mos.
ago. by a big young African American male did that. I just asked him if he
would like me to call him the American N word that is not acceptable?
I live in Kingston NY, and love the Dutch and other European influences here
by the Hudson.The Lutheran church here has a Xmas Eve service in German with
an imported German Minister, what a treat. I was told by the judge at the
naturalization ceremony, never to forget my culture and traditions. I proudly
speak and write my mother language and never hide my German ness, although I
tried to improve on my accent. Both my children took German in school and went
on exchange programs to Germany.
My grand mother in Göttingen, spoke platt a lot. The Göttingen rural areas
still do, but that is beyond me now.
Greetings to all.
Ingrid Fetköter, Kingston NY
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
One of the saddest things to me about the Hudson Valley was the updating and modernization of West Point.
When I was a child we used to go there -- and there were many old Dutch buildings there, barracks from the
Revolutionary War on the west of the parade ground, etc. It was so pleasant to go there and watch the cadets
parade in the full dress blue uniform on the beautiful lawns, see all the flowers, flowering shrubs and historic
buildings. We drove through in the early 1980s to show the Chicago-born husband and children, and I just
couldn't believe the changes -- it had become a really frightening place and looked like a war machine to me --
all in 25-30 years -- the years that that WALL was dividing Germany. Peace at a price, I guess, Ingrid. There
were Hessian soldiers who fought with the British during the American Revolution and stayed on in that area
after the Revolution as well. NJ was heavily Dutch, too -- and also had a large and early Swedish
immigration that had a prosperous glassmaking tradition -- and later, of course, the English. Do you love the
early paintings of the Hudson River School? I wish I could afford to have some!
Jersey City, NJ, was the second largest city in America in the first 3/4 of the 19th century, until Chicago was
rebuilt bigger after the fire there in 1871. My Hanoverian ancestor settled in Jersey City in 1864 along with
many other Germans -- the German passenger lines docked on the NJ side of the Hudson -- and he had a
brewery and several saloons -- all still standing, but with different uses. The brewery is modern condominiums.
A man there told me in 2005 that all who were home on 9-11 had gone up on the roof sundeck (about 4 stories)
and were watching the fire at the Twin Towers and then saw the second plane hit the second tower. My mother
used to sneak through that brewery and into the tavern part of that building with her girlfriends to snitch pretzels
early in the day before the patrons arrived. The building is a witness to so much history and who knows if it
was even new when Fritz bought it in the early 1880s?
If Eichsfeld was RC then surely Fritz was NOT from there. The Gansbergs were Calvinists. My grandmother
was RC. THAT was the problem. Her family was originally from the Eifel, not Hannover.
Let's hope we all meet only kind people for the next day, have some respite from the hurting souls who just
need so badly to have others share their hurt, and look for opportunities to show our own love and kindness
wherever we go.
One of the saddest things to me about the Hudson Valley was the updating and
modernization of West Point.
When I was a child we used to go there -- and there were many old Dutch
buildings there, barracks from the
Revolutionary War on the west of the parade ground, etc. It was so pleasant
to go there and watch the cadets
parade in the full dress blue uniform on the beautiful lawns, see all the
flowers, flowering shrubs and historic
buildings. We drove through in the early 1980s to show the Chicago-born
husband and children, and I just
couldn't believe the changes -- it had become a really frightening place and
looked like a war machine to me --
all in 25-30 years -- the years that that WALL was dividing Germany. Peace
at a price, I guess, Ingrid. There
were Hessian soldiers who fought with the British during the American
Revolution and stayed on in that area
after the Revolution as well. NJ was heavily Dutch, too -- and also had a
large and early Swedish
immigration that had a prosperous glassmaking tradition -- and later, of
course, the English. Do you love the
early paintings of the Hudson River School? I wish I could afford to have
some!
Jersey City, NJ, was the second largest city in America in the first 3/4 of
the 19th century, until Chicago was
rebuilt bigger after the fire there in 1871. My Hanoverian ancestor settled
in Jersey City in 1864 along with
many other Germans -- the German passenger lines docked on the NJ side of
the Hudson -- and he had a
brewery and several saloons -- all still standing, but with different uses.
The brewery is modern condominiums.
A man there told me in 2005 that all who were home on 9-11 had gone up on
the roof sundeck (about 4 stories)
and were watching the fire at the Twin Towers and then saw the second plane
hit the second tower. My mother
used to sneak through that brewery and into the tavern part of that building
with her girlfriends to snitch pretzels
early in the day before the patrons arrived. The building is a witness to
so much history and who knows if it
was even new when Fritz bought it in the early 1880s?
If Eichsfeld was RC then surely Fritz was NOT from there. The Gansbergs
were Calvinists. My grandmother
was RC. THAT was the problem. Her family was originally from the Eifel,
not Hannover.
Let's hope we all meet only kind people for the next day, have some respite
from the hurting souls who just
need so badly to have others share their hurt, and look for opportunities to
show our own love and kindness
wherever we go.
I arrived in Hoboken, New Jersey on board the Maasdam in December 1954. You
brought back memories. I haven't been back to West Point since the 1970's.
I'm sorry about the changes. One of my students just started going to
school there. Heide
In G�ttingen ist das Plattdeutsche ausgestorben. Ich wohne 25 km westlich von G�ttingen. Die alten Leute sprechen untereinander Plattdeutsch, die j�ngeren nicht mehr.
Das hier gesprochene Plattdeutsch ist Ostf�lisch. Das liest sich, wennman es aufschreibt, so:
(M�rchen vom Sterntaler - De Steerndalers
Et was emaal en l�ttjet Meken, den w�rrn Vader un Mutter estorben. Et was s�o arm, dat et nich maal ne l�ttje Kamer harre, wuu et inne wuhen konne, un kein Bedde, wuu et inne slapen konne; un t�olest harre et waier niks mehr as de Kl�i'ere up'm Laive un en Brocken Braud in der Hand, wat ne en mitl�idiget Hert schenket harre. Et was aver g�ot un fromm. ...."
Halbwegs richtig lesen kann man das nur, wenn man es mal geh�rt hat.
Klaus Kunze
Dazu eine kleine Geschichte: Eine Nachbarin, vor zwei Jahren gestorben, hatte eine kleine Pension. Manchmal hatte sie auch holl�ndische G�ste. Eines Tages unterhielten die sich am Fr�hst�ckstisch ganz ungeniert und dachten, keiner versteht sie.
Meine Nachbarin als Wirtin verstand aber jedes Wort, weil sie selbst den hiesigen ostf�lischen Dialekt beherrscht.
Das Erstaunen der Holl�nder war gro�.
Trotzdem: Als gesprochener Dialekt klingt ostf�lisch ganz anders als Holl�ndisch. F�r mein Ohr h�ren sich die Holl�nder immer an, als w�rden sie grunzen, weil sie viele ch-Laute tief in der Kehle - na ja, grunzen eben, ich wei� nicht, wie ich es anders ausdr�cken soll.
Ostf�lisch h�rt sich auch anders an als Westf�lisch. Das liegt nicht am Satzbau oder der Grammatik, sondern an der Aussprache und dem Grundton der Sprache.
Nebenbei: Das Niederl�ndische ist integraler Bestandteil der deutschen Sprachlandschaft. Es ist ein nur aus historisch politischen Gr�nden zur Schriftsprache aufgewerteter deutscher Dialekt. Gebildete Niederl�nder wissen das, reden aber nicht gern dar�ber. Jedenfalls nicht auf deutsch.
Klaus Kunze
Es gleicht ein Bisschen auf platt-Hollaendisch ; frueher sprachen die Leute in Holland und Deutschland jenerseits der Grenze beinahe dieselbe Sprache ; heutzutage doch noch en Bisschen.
Grusz, aus Holland / Gelderland .
Albert ( Veldhuis )
- Voorz: Veluwse Geslachten ( V V G ) Box 519 NL-3770 AM Barneveld
- e-mail: <a.veldhuis@veluwsegeslachten.nl>
- URL: http://www.veluwsegeslachten.nl
- email: <albert.veldhuis@planet.nl>
Ja. Urspr�nglich gab es eine flie�ende Sprachlandschaft von Flandern bis K�nigsberg. Alle paar D�rfer weiter �nderte sich der Dialekt ein bi�chen, aber nirgend sehr. �berall verstand man einander.
Erst durch die Nationalstaatenbildung und Schulunterricht wurde den Kindern der Dialekt wegerzogen. F�r meine gegen in S�dniedersachsen kann ich das seit Ende des 18. (!) Jahrhunderts archivalisch nachweisen.
Die einzige Exklave bildeten die West- und Ostfriesen mit einer eigenen germanischen, heute ausgestorbenen Sprache.
KK
Jetzt bin ich seit 1981 rund um G�ttingen und alle Woche in G. - aber vor mir m�ssen sich die alten G�ttinger immer versteckt oder verstellt haben! Ich glaube das gern, habe es aber noch nie geh�rt.
Ihr KK