DNA (even for those men who married women who inherited farms)

hannover-l
1

Hi Guys:

Now I have a question about this DNA thing. My last name is Mitchell and I
have been doing family research for 15 years more or less so I go back several
generations. I am getting ready to be tested mostly because it seems like the
next step that I should take. When I get my results back from my test it
will probable show that I am connected somehow to another last name such as
Smith as was the case in an earlier letter. Is this correct? How can this be if
the Y-DNA only goes through the men? The only way that there can be a name
change is through the marriage of a woman. Am I confused?

  Tim Mitchell

************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com

2

Hello Tim,

Now I have a question about this DNA thing.
When I get my results back from my test it
will probable show that I am connected somehow to another last name such as
Smith as was the case in an earlier letter. Is this correct? How can this be if
the Y-DNA only goes through the men?
Am I confused?

It is not difficult at all.

(1) Assume there is a farmer (14. century) without a last name
(however, he has a DNA haplotype (DHT) and let's make it simple: we call it DHT-123 )

(2) Now his neighbors call him one day BAUER (German for farmer).
At that moment his future last name BAUER gets linked to DHT-123.

[There are other farmers in other places who will get called BAUER one day, but they have DIFFERENT DHTs]
Remember: The same last name can (!) have different DHT !

(3) Our BAUER-family prospers throughout history and one of them (now a university theacher in 1820) decides that a Latin name would be "cooler" so he remames himself SATORIUS (roughly: farmer in Latin) .
Remember: His last name changed, his DHT ist still DHT-123.

(4) Now one of his sons emigrates to the US and is registered there (lets say) as ZATORI (the guy at Ellis Island was hard of hearing ... and of Italian background ...).
Remember: The name changed again ... but the DHT is still the same.

(5) ZATORI now lives in an Italian neighborhood ... and has a very (verrrry !) goodlooking wife who gives birth to a baby boy (who 'by chance' has the same hair color, nose and ear shape as ZATORI's neighbor called STALLONE ....)
Remember: The name is still the same but some other DNA (lets say DHT-911) now got into the system.
[In the future, you will find DHT-911 associated with the names Zatori AND Stallone. ]

Now combine all the name changes as you please (include single mothers [woh do not even know who the father of their baby boy is {BUT DNA KNOWS !!!} and find this in the church, wedding, military etc. papers) ...
... but you can be SURE that the DNA in the direct genetic father line (WHATEVER THEIR NAMES ARE) will remain (over 20-30 generations) absolutely the same DHT.

Ergo:
If the DHT is the same for two men they MUST be related (WHATEVER THEIR NAMES MAY BE).
If the last names of two men are the same they could eventually be related (lOOk at their DNA !) but there is no guarantee.

In another mailing list we estimated and calculated the probability of "a slipped-in baby" (in German called "Cuckoo Child") : Within 20 Generations (500 years) you have a very close to 100 % chance that you will find such an event within your family (mothers + fathers side).

So you all ... out there ... better get ready for some ...

   !! SUR.... PRI ...SES !!

Sincerely
Hanno (V.J.Kolbe)

3

Tim:

Name changes could be from several reasons: adoption, born out of wedlock
and took mother's surname, foster children assumed foster parents name,
changed name to be more 'American' or ... The woman had a child of a man
other than her husband.

When you match someone that has a different last name, you do not know WHICH
participant is NOT the biological MITCHELL. You must then have several
others 'living male biological MITCHELLS' tested so you can isolate which is
the 'non-Mitchell'. To do this, go back a couple generations and take the
brother's son's DNA. Eventually, you will be able to determine where the
'name change' entered the picture.

4

Hanno: You explain so much better than I do ...

Bonita

5

If your ancestors came from Germany it could very will be that a great
grandfather or further back had the wife's last name, if she had property
the husband recieved that name in addtion to his, or in stead of, now if
you really want to make it confusing, take a brother of my
gr.gr.gr.grandmother he had 4 last names, she was Gilsbach, -Vollmer- Figge,
her brother marriged a women with property so he was
Schulten-Gilsbach-Volmer-Figge if one of his sons or grandsons imigrated to
the States which of the names would he have had? and to compicate it further
his father or grandfather could have been a carpenter so was called
Timmerman or a backsmith and called Schmies, Schmidt, Schmitz take your
pick. Also in my family tree back in the 1600's a couple had property and
no heir so the property and it's name (the family name of the husband) went
to the wife's brother and so passed on for generations.So you see the
possiblities are endless when you consider that this could also be
happienng to the other person who is having his DNA tested and the results
connect the two of you thru the Y-gen. Anna Marie

6

Tim Mitchell:

The Y-Chromosome DNA test ONLY looks at genetic markets so the results you
get are of another man who has a 'common ancestor' to you ... (on a 43
marker test, a perfect 100%, match you definitely have a common ancestor ..
the more mutations the less of a chance you have a common ancestor. So on
the 43 marker test, I would discount anyone that has more than 3 non-matches
as not connected at all.)

The Y-chromosome test does not even look at surnames .. only those genetic
markers passed from father to son. So, if a Smith shows up as a perfect
match, there has been a name change -- the trick is to find out WHICH is the
correct biological name.

Surnames can change many ways ...
1) legally change the name to Americanize it or to differentiate it from
someone else,
2) child born to an unmarried woman and he is given the mother's maiden name
3) child is born to a married woman BUT her husband is NOT the biological
father of the child (surrogate or adultery)
4) adoption of a child
5) orphaned child assumes the name of their foster father
6) changing the name to avoid the law -- being captured by sheriff
7) in European countries when daughter inherited farm, the husband assumed
the wife's surname to become owner of her father's farm

in all these cases regardless of how the name was changed, genetically he
carries his biological father's DNA ... which is a good thing since we want
to know the true lineage. I do have adoptions in my lineage and I trace
both the biological family as well as the adoptive family ... when the
records were not sealed.

Bonita