Discussions, debates, soapboxes, etc., etc

Hi everybody: Some of you no doubt have wondered why I have not joined the "fray". Simple reason - when both kids are here at the same time, as for Christmas, my son uses my "office" as his bedroom and my computer was totally blocked and I could not get near it. I have spent the last 3 nights and most of today perusing all these fascinating posts. And I agree wholeheartedly that all of this (or most of it, anyway) definitely adds to the pleasure of genealogy. So let me put my two (or 3) cents in before Fred comes back and chastises all of us.
One thing shines thru loud and clear - our pride in our German ancestry and how we quickly jump in to defend it. Amen to that.
Re: POWs - I have two cousins (both dead now) who were Russian prisoners in WW2, both severely mistreated and one horribly tortured by the Russians. I was fortunate to meet them both long after the War and hear their stories. I'll spare you the gory details but anyone interested, please write me off-list. It is important for us to know about this both about current cousins as well as ancestors as it can give us much insight about what kind of people they were and what they lived thru.
Alien registration: This also was true during WW2. My grandfather, for some unknown reason (probably procrastination) never became a citizen and every month they had to go down to the PO and register. This terribly embarrassed my grandmother because they had lived here as good "citizens" for well over 50 years.
The dying out of the language: When I first started in genealogy, I read a book about the Mormons collecting thereof and the author (whose name I can't remember) pointed out that the first generation of immigrants were always nostalgic about the old country (whether for good or bad), the second generation desperately tried to erase all connections to it, and the third generation sincerely wanted to know as much about it as possible - which in time led us to becoming interested in genealogy. Those of us who still had a grandparent living to tell you the old stories are very fortunate indeed. I am one such - altho my mother (2nd gen)
forbade my grandmother to teach me German - I lived with my grandmother who filled my with such a love of the Heimat that I couldn't wait to go there (I finally succeeded many years after her death) and when I finally was able to go to Germany, I felt as tho I were coming Home. Unfortunately, I grew up speaking a mish-mash of Platt, Hoch and English and it was only when some kid in school would look at me strangely and ask "What did you say?" that I knew one of the German words had slipped in. Sadly, as my mother lay on her deathbed in the hospital, she reverted to all the old German prayers she had learned as a child.
Plattd��tsch: I always wanted to learn it but due to the above prohibition, never did. When I was in college my German professor wanted so much to meet my grandmother and learn it but she was getting old then and froze up. However, most of my cousins over there speak it at home and I found I was able to understand most of it. When I was last there (some 20 years ago) there was quite a movement in Vilsen to have it taught in the schools again. After all , it was the Lingua Franca of the mighty Hanse before Luther translated the Bible into Hoch. I don't know what became of that since I have not been able to return.
History: As an author and historian, I have quite a bit to say about that. But I'll sign off this one for now. Mfg, Jane

Jane Swan
jeswansong@earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

As an old (er, enlistment wise) and venerable member of the list, your considerable input here certainly deserves some feedback. Since I'm still laid up and no one has taken the plunge yet, allow me this dance.

From: "Jane Swan" <jeswansong@earthlink.net>
Subject: [HN] Discussions, debates, soapboxes, etc., etc.
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2005 23:25:57 -0500

Hi everybody: Some of you no doubt have wondered why I have not joined the "fray". Simple reason - when both kids are here at the same time, as for Christmas, my son uses my "office" as his bedroom and my computer was totally blocked and I could not get near it. I have spent the last 3 nights and most of today perusing all these fascinating posts. And I agree wholeheartedly that all of this (or most of it, anyway) definitely adds to the pleasure of genealogy. So let me put my two (or 3) cents in before Fred comes back and chastises all of us.

Fray? Perhaps BLITZKRIEG would be more appropriate! I certainly wondered when you, Barbara, Gale, Winifred - let's just say ::ALL:: those of the fairer persuasion - were going to make your appearance! No doubt busy doing most of the brick-n-mortar SEASONS GREETINGS CHORES AND TASKS! :open_mouth: Be that as it may, you saw what the rest of us made of it when we took to center stage. Even Barbie (CF) went MIA for a spell there after an early appearance. By the time poor Rena showed up, she had her hands full provocating (sic) and fending us off all at once (which she did rather handily, even three at a time). As could be predicted, our enthusiasm got the best of us, and the powers that be felt obliged to pull the reins in a tad (rumor has it the server was starting to overheat, but who knows :)). Things have chilled down a bit since. :wink:

One thing shines thru loud and clear - our pride in our German ancestry and how we quickly jump in to defend it. Amen to that.

Isn't that the truth. And contrary to popular opinion!

Re: POWs - I have two cousins (both dead now) who were Russian prisoners in WW2, both severely mistreated and one horribly tortured by the Russians. I was fortunate to meet them both long after the War and hear their stories. I'll spare you the gory details but anyone interested, please write me off-list. It is important for us to know about this both about current cousins as well as ancestors as it can give us much insight about what kind of people they were and what they lived thru.

We had quite a range of opinions expressed on that one, and a respectable accounting of some of lucky ones who survived the ordeal. Appreciate your addition.

Alien registration: This also was true during WW2. My grandfather, for some unknown reason (probably procrastination) never became a citizen and every month they had to go down to the PO and register. This terribly embarrassed my grandmother because they had lived here as good "citizens" for well over 50 years.

What astounds me is how well the FBI did its thing, even back in the day. Their ability to keep tabs on aliens - German, Italian AND Japanese - was amazing. I have a few stories I could relate to you regarding their efficiency during this period, but it would be out of scope here. Suffice to say they were pretty good at what they did, even in the pre-database, pre-computer era.

The dying out of the language: When I first started in genealogy, I read a book about the Mormons collecting thereof and the author (whose name I can't remember) pointed out that the first generation of immigrants were always nostalgic about the old country (whether for good or bad), the second generation desperately tried to erase all connections to it, and the third generation sincerely wanted to know as much about it as possible - which in time led us to becoming interested in genealogy.�

Interesting summation, and no doubt true for the most part. However I know of some of the first generation who could easily double for the second in this equation. And others of course who fit that billing to the 'T'. My G-Grandmother was an exception. She longed for life back in Hildesheim, and regretted to her dying days having settled in the USA. So exceptions, as always, apply.

Those of us who still had a grandparent living to tell you the old stories are very fortunate indeed. I am one such - altho my mother (2nd gen) forbade my grandmother to teach me German - I lived with my grandmother who filled my with such a love of the Heimat that I couldn't wait to go there (I finally succeeded many years after her death) and when I finally was able to go to Germany, I felt as tho I were coming Home. Unfortunately, I grew up speaking a mish-mash of Platt, Hoch and English and it was only when some kid in school would look at me strangely and ask "What did you say?" that I knew one of the German words had slipped in.

I would be inclined to add this to what Bonnie, Barbie-Lew and - who have I forgotten [??] - contributed as part of the ladies addition to PRECIOUS, but that thread has since faded.�

Sadly, as my mother lay on her deathbed in the hospital, she reverted to all the old German prayers she had learned as a child.

Sad perhaps, but not a wholly isolated incident either I suspect.

Plattd��tsch: I always wanted to learn it but due to the above prohibition, never did. When I was in college my German professor wanted so much to meet my grandmother and learn it but she was getting old then and froze up. However, most of my cousins over there speak it at home and I found I was able to understand most of it. When I was last there (some 20 years ago) there was

quite a movement in Vilsen to have it taught in the schools again. After all, it was the Lingua Franca of the mighty Hanse before Luther translated the Bible into Hoch. I don't know what became of that since I have not been able to return.

Another interesting tidbit on what has become one of the signature themes of Hannover-L :: Plattd��tsch!!

History: As an author and historian, I have quite a bit to say about that. But I'll sign off this one for now.�

Mfg, Jane

Welcome back. MFG auch! :slight_smile: Jb