Hello
I am seeking the birth details of a Wilhelm Carl Louis Demel, mostly just known as "Louis" Demel.
He came to Australia in the 1880s. He was born in Hanover, Germany, the son of George Demel and Helmena. I do not have his year of birth, but most likely it would have been in the 1860s. He died in 1939 in Sydney, Australia, but I do not have his age at death.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Neil
Australia
newpond@bigpond.net.au
With what you have provided, it might be best to ask what you have so far on Louis Demel, and what record searches you have performed there locally on your end. There seems to be a number of nebulous spaces here, normally best addressed locally before attempting to bridge the connection on the German side.
He was born in Hanover
Do you have anything that indicates the city of Hanover, as opposed to the state of Hanover? Big big difference.
He died in 1939 in Sydney, Australia, but I do not have his age at death.
Do you have his death certificate and/or obituary? A cemetery or funeral record? Naturalization papers or census listings? Do you know if he had additional relations in Australia, and if so, have you attempted to contact or interview them?
It might be best to indicate how much research you have done to date in your quest, and as mentioned, what record sources you have checked on the Australian side. This would also make it easier for listers to possibly suggest additional advice depending on where you are at in your research. I assume you are already familiar with Cyndi's List for record resources in your neck of the woods?
You may luck out of course, but right now with what you have, it looks more like a roll of the dice.
Jb
Hello Neil,
You have already been offered some good advice, and you must start your research here in Australia and work backwards from your own parents, this is essential before any serious research can begin in Germany.
A simple check of the passenger arrival indexes either on line or at your local family history library for each state in Australia would have told you that an L Demel arrived from New Zealand at the Port of Melbourne in 1885. (just go to google and type in Public Record Office Victoria and then click on their on-line immigration index, there are several entries for Demel)
His naturalization may well be in New Zealand as well, check this index at your local library if available, order a copy from New Zealand, this record may indicate if he was resident in England or America prior to his arrival in New Zealand. Keep in mind that New Zealand was part of Australasia until Federation in 1901. It would not have been necessary for him to become naturalized again when here arrived in Australia.
Purchase all BDMs, or obtain copies from other researchers, collectively they should provide you with important information which could give you clues to his exact place of origin. Death certificates usually indicate the number of years the deceased has been resident in the Colony.
The LDS (Mormons) have filmed a significant amount of records for Germany, Australia and New Zealand check their "Family History Library Catalog" for details, these records include immigration, naturalization, civil and church records, military records, census, cemetery records, education, apprenticeship/ guild records etc...films can be ordered from your nearest Mormon library, no matter where you live in Australia.
Once you identify your ancestors arrival, confirm his personal details such as his age on arrival, at the time of his naturalization, his marriage and when his children were born etc. serious research can begin only when these details are known.
Check the National Archives of Australia www.naa.gov.au there are 17 entries for Demel, most interesting is a Bankrupt Estate file for Louis Demel, held in the "Perth office", the date range is from 1892-1960 you should order a photocopy (fees apply) of this file and see what it contains. Because it covers 68 years it should contain some family details and business information.
There are numerous "Trade Mark" files held in Canberra. The Canberra files can be ordered as on-line digital images for free. The files held in the Melbourne office can only be photocopied and posted to you for a fee. There is also a military service record for George Blake Demel, already digitised on line, his mother is Mrs Marion Blake Demel of Western Australia.
Talk to your family, include relatives, their friends and business colleagues.
These are just a few hints to get your research started, when you have more information I am sure there are several people on this list who will be happy to assist you further.
Good luck.
Elizabeth
NSW Australia
Very nice follow-up Elizabeth. That one's a keeper. 
Neil, time for some feedback on your part, not regurgitations.
Jb
Thank you Elizabeth for that record time response.
I am a little confused. From what you say it appears that my first message
did reach the list and was replied to. I must not have been properly
subscribed because I did not receive any replies so I tried subscribing
again and re-sent the original message. Apologies to all!
Louis is not my ancestor. He is one of a fairly large number of Netherlands
Consuls to Western Australia since 1863 that I am researching and I can't
afford to purchase the various certificates and searches for all of them, so
I'm gathering what I information can.
I have seen the arrival of L Demel in Victoria in 1885 on the PRO site but
there are a number of arrivals with different ages. Good point about the
possibility of an NZ naturalisation. (Thanks so much for your subsequent
posting with the details of it Elizabeth).
I have checked the bankruptcy files in the National Archives of Australia at
Perth which don't
give much personal information as well as the army service records of his
sons plus other records, one of which says Louis was born in "Hanover" (by
the way one of his sons was killed in action at Gallipoli in 1915 and 2
other sons served in France with the Australian Army).
I posted the message with my limited information on the chance that there
may be a database for Hanover similar to
the New South Wales Birth Deaths and Marriages Registry Historical Index
Search 1788 - 1975 with which the information I supplied would have found
him.
The New Zealand connection makes sense. I searched the 1901 ad 1881 English
censuses. In the 1901 census living at Stretford, Lancashire is a Carl Demel
born c. 1860 in "Germany Not naturalised" with his English born wife Helen
and 3 English born children plus a nephew, Paul C. Demel born about 1884 in
New Zealand!
Then in the 1881 English Census living at Hale, Cheshire is Hermann Demel
(Head of Household) born about 1850 at Clausthal, Germany, British Subject,
his English born wife Annie, his sister Marie Demel born about 1853 at
Clausthal, Germany, and his brother Carl Demel born about 1860 at Clausthal,
Germany. So, is Clausthal a good enough clue. Presumbley these could be the
brothers and sister of Louis. His parents names were George and Helmena
(?short for Wilhelmena??).
Thanks very much Elizabeth and John for your assistance.
Neil
Good to see you're onboard satisfactorily Neil. Was wondering what was up with you for a while there.
For all it's worth, you're in good company here in facing the NUMBER ONE stickler of German genealogical research :: trying to pinpoint the ancestral hub of your family. Nothing unique in the least. As many as not on this list (and elsewhere) are in identical waters, on some or all of their German family lines. It is the holy grail of Germanic family research, and can sometimes take years to figure out. Often it comes down to the tiniest clue, when easy or give-away ones are not to be found. Before the onset of database indexing and the array of Internet resources we now have, it was an even more daunting task. Thus the reason those who have traversed these trails for any amount of time will tell you too search high and low for clues, and not to quit before all available resources have been exhausted. Even then, there will always be new offerings being rendered, the result of ongoing data mining and database indexing, as well as the proliferation of information now accessible thanks to the Internet.
Over time, those who don't have the stomach for slow burn returns will invariably fade away, or hang up their hats. But if there is one story that gets told time and again, it is the one where - when you least expect it - something is uncovered that finally turns the tide. The larger you cast your net, the greater chance you have to reel in that magic bullet. Don't lose heart also if you hit upon names that look tantalizingly similar to yours, only to determine they are not the correct ones. When you are talking of millions upon millions of souls, many will carry similar or identical names, often in age brackets to match.
I can see you have done a fair share of work to date. That being the case, you're half way there in your quest already. Whether or not your post here brings laudable or immediate results, take heart that you have at least placed your namesake(s) in the list archives. Anyone performing a search for that surname should locate it, along with your name and addy. Plus you will benefit from others' suggestions and approaches, whether directly or indirectly. In the end it is going to come down to how much you really want to find this connection, since it may not come easy. They rarely do.
Good luck. Jb
"Neil" <newpond@bigpond.net.au> schrieb:
....
Then in the 1881 English Census living at Hale, Cheshire is Hermann Demel
(Head of Household) born about 1850 at Clausthal, Germany, British Subject,
his English born wife Annie, his sister Marie Demel born about 1853 at
Clausthal, Germany, and his brother Carl Demel born about 1860 at Clausthal,
Germany. So, is Clausthal a good enough clue. Presumbley these could be the
brothers and sister of Louis. His parents names were George and Helmena
(?short for Wilhelmena??).
....
Hello Neil,
might be of interest for you. We have in 1998 a Marie DEMEL in 38678 Clausthal-Zellerfeld , Österöder Str. 53, Tel. 05323 78545. She is also the only DEMEL in Clausthal at that time having a telefone entry. Maybe your line and a translated letter will bring you more information.
Greetings
Hans Peter Albers, Bienenbüttel
Thank you very much Hans Peter
Neil