Bismarck, History, etc

Hi Fred: I beg to take friendly exception to your remarks about my knowledge of history. I thoroughly researched, from many disparate sources, for almost 20 years in order to write my books (not articles). I only thought that bit of explanation was due to clarify for the lady (and others) who kept referring to her ancestors of the 1500s as being from "Hannover, Prussia" when neither, as such, existed at that time.
You are correct that the desire for unity went back to the Frankfurt Constituent Assembly of 1848 and even before, due in great part to the weakness and lack of leadership of Austria. But, however great a statesman you consider Bismarck (and there's no doubt he was), he was also a schemer and very devious. Have you ever heard of the infamous "Ems Dispatch"? or the "Reptilienfond" - the money he stole from the Welf in order to bribe Ludwig of Bavaria to write the letter urging the King of Prussia to accept the title of Emperor of the Germans? And, yes, there were many in Hannover, including Bennigsen and many Liberals who fell into line. But there was also a very strong pro-Welf party desiring independence from Prussia and they existed even through the Weimar Republic and were only squelched by Hitler in 1932.
As I said, I left out many details in order to simplify the history for those who knew little or none of it. You obviously are much more knowledgeable than most but please don't disparage my knowledge. Besides we're almost neighbors (I live in Port Charlotte).
Thanks. Jane

Jane Swan
jeswansong@earthlink.net
Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

Hi Fred: I beg to take friendly exception to your remarks about my
knowledge of history. I thoroughly researched, from many disparate
sources, for almost 20 years in order to write my books (not
articles).

Like I said, I didn't want to get into it but here we are. I've
been reading history since I graduated (at the top of my class)
in German history. It's been a little longer then 20 years. :slight_smile:

I only thought that bit of explanation was due to clarify
for the lady (and others) who kept referring to her ancestors of the
1500s as being from "Hannover, Prussia" when neither, as such, existed
at that time.

Yes I know.

You are correct that the desire for unity went back to
the Frankfurt Constituent Assembly of 1848 and even before, due in
great part to the weakness and lack of leadership of Austria.

Austria was quite happy with the Kleinstaaterei which pitted
states against states and held Austria out front as big and
powerful. Brandenburg/Prussia was a pain in the arse to them
and the growth of its power eventually proved that they were
right.

But,
however great a statesman you consider Bismarck (and there's no doubt
he was), he was also a schemer and very devious.

Isn't that an adequate description of every great stateman?
Current politicians included. Great statesmen also have their
own goals and these aren't necessarily great or good in the
long run for a country.

Have you ever heard
of the infamous "Ems Dispatch"? or the "Reptilienfond" - the money he
stole from the Welf in order to bribe Ludwig of Bavaria to write the
letter urging the King of Prussia to accept the title of Emperor of
the Germans?

I didn't know the whole history of the Reptilienfond. I always
thought it was simply money set aside to be good payola to
the press. I guess such funds have always existed in every
government to move it's aims.

And, yes, there were many in Hannover, including
Bennigsen and many Liberals who fell into line. But there was also a
very strong pro-Welf party desiring independence from Prussia and they
existed even through the Weimar Republic and were only squelched by
Hitler in 1932.

In general though German patriotism won out over such
individual efforts. Prussia also had it benefits for those who
played along. That there were opponents is a given but their
voices were not very loud.

As I said, I left out many details in order to
simplify the history for those who knew little or none of it. You
obviously are much more knowledgeable than most but please don't
disparage my knowledge. Besides we're almost neighbors (I live in
Port Charlotte). Thanks. Jane

What really set me off was your comment about the Prussians
having almost no farmers left to till the fields. Such
commentary is not very historical as the Prussians always
valued their farmers and cared about food for the population
and the army. Without farmers neither would be happy with
the system.

You have to be careful about generalizing as people will
believe what they read as they don't know the history behind
the words.

Take a look some time at Hagen Schulze, 'States, Nations
and Nationalism' or his more recent work, 'Germany, a New
History'. You'll gain some perspective as to how, why and
when the German state formed. It is a bit more complicated
then giving Bismarck or even the Prussians all the credit.

Fred

Fred & Marlies Rump
730 5th St. NW
Naples, FL 34120-2029
239-775-7838 239-269-4781(cell)
FredRump@earthlink.net