Dear Wolfgang,
Thank you very much replying to Horst concerning my inquiry. I also
appreciate reading it in English. Although I can read a little German I miss
much. I admire anyone who has a good command of both languages.
I'm interested in any further comments concerning the practice of entering
names in church records relating to this thread.
Dear Listers,
I believe this is the first time so I probably should introduce myself,
rather than just jumping in as is my usual habit.
My name is Margaret Lindner Nikkhah. I'm married with one son, in my early
50's, and living in Iran. I originally came from Fond du Lac county,
Wisconsin in the USA. I've been monitoring the OW-Preussen-L for a couple of
months now (as well as Pommern-L and Neumark-L). I started "playing" with
genealogy about 30 years ago, but only recently did I take a more serious
look at it.
My grandfather PETRICH came from Kreis Arnswalde, Neumark. His mother was a
GENRICH. On my mother's side the names GAULKE and STRELOW also appear
(connections after arriving in the USA, 1880's). I've only tried to tackle
PETRICH so far.
My LINDNER side from Sachsen-Altenburg (Thuringia). SCH�FER from
Framersheim, Rheinland-Pfalz, and HELLER from Schweina, Thuringia, also are
connected (both after emigration) on my father's side.
Friendly greetings from Tehran,
Margaret Nikkhah
Subject: Re: [OWP] Aufbau/Vergabe von Vornamen/Rufnamen
From: Wolfgang.Schluter@t-online.de
(=?ISO-8859-1?b?IldvbGZnYW5nIFNjaGz8dGVyIg==?=)
To: <ow-preussen-l@genealogy.net>
Date: 13 Aug 2002 13:52 GMTOnly once I saw a church record (baptism) were the first and middle name
wa=
s separated by a comma. That was 1885 in East-Prussia (Schimonken). Until
a=
bout 1860 it was normal in my family (kingdom of Hanover), that males had
f=
irst middle and a third name and then the family name, and they were
called=
by their third name. (Peter Wilhelm Karl Schl�ter was called Karl). That=
changed with one of my grandfathers. He was called by his first of three
n=
ames (besides his family name) whereas my other grandfather was still
calle=
d by his third name.
Wolfgang Karl Georg Schl�ter, called Wolfgang
<LindnerHo@aol.com> schrieb:
> Liebe Forscherfreunde,
>
> ich erhielt eine Anfrage von einer Ahnenforscherin, die gerne
Information=
en �ber (in Deutschland bzw. deutsch sprechenden L�ndern) m�gliche Vo=
rnamen-Schemata erhalten w�rde, da ihre Ahnen von hier stammen.
> Dies k�nnte Ihr evtl. bei der weiteren Suche helfen. Vielleicht gibt es=
auch eine WEB-Seite �ber m�gliche Systeme von Vornamen, Vornamensgebun=
g, was ist der Rufname, regionale (Vor-)Namen-Systeme o.�.
> Wer k�nnte hier�ber plausible Erkl�rungen bzw. Beispiele geben ?
> M�glicherweise ist dies auch f�r einige andere Forscher interessant, =
die an einen Namen verzweifeln, weil er sich auf Grund von
Eigenheiten/Orte=
n und/oder besonderen Ereignissen evtl. ge�ndert oder „angepasst=
220; wurde.
>
> Folgende Anfrage erhielt ich von ihr (Ich habe sie nicht �bersetzt, da =
mein simples Englisch evtl. etwas verf�lschen k�nnte):
>
> > In the church records at my home church in Wisconsin there
> > were baptismal entries where the given names were separated
> > by commas (for example: Emma, Amelia, Katharina).
> > At first glance I thought it was several children of the same family.=> > But at closer inspection I realized that it was ONE child.
> > Do you know if that had any special meaning, or was it only to
> > separate the names? (The first pastors were born and trained in
> > Germany). Also, sometimes these children (and children without
> > the commas in the entries) were later called by what I had
> > thought was their middle name. So Julius Heinrich, for example,
> > was called Henry.
>
> Meine etwas hilflose Antwort darauf:
> I think, there gives NOT a rule/regulation. We can found a lot of
differe=
nt entries.
>
> a) the given name(s)/Vorname(n) from the baptism, without a sign
> at the ?calling? name ("Rufname" in german)
> b) the given name from the baptism, with underlining the ?calling? name.
> c) the ?calling? name at the first place/last place of the given names.
> d) the ?calling? name was the shortest name - the name what the
> mother/father like - the name what friends/neighbours/relations
call=
> (before the Standesamt/registrars office were created).
>
> (like me: Horst Hans Paul = my Vorname [Horst] - the Vorname of my
> father at the second place [Hans] - the Vorname of my grandfather
[Paul]=
> at the third place.
> That ist NOT a rule/regulation from the Sachsen-area, that the given
> names from the father and/or grandfather get the children, but it was
> in my family. I've never heard before, the the given names will
separated=
> with commas, maybe it is a speciality of this priest ?or of that area?
?o=
r ...?
>
> > However, could you tell me what you know of the NORMAL
> > practice of entering names in the church records (mid 1800's).
> > [I was surprise to find in a marriage entry the middle and first
> > name reversed from the baptismal record and from what we
> > knew of their names!]
> > People do have "nicknames". There is no rule about them.
> > Sometimes they a shortened version of one of their given names
> > (first/vorname or other, such as middle, name). Sometimes they
> > are for a physical feature ("Red" perhaps for someone with red
> > hair, "Shorty" for a short person --- OR for a tall person, as for
> > a joke, etc.). Sometimes for a special reason ("Happy" or "Smiley"
> > for a person who always smiles).
> > There was a boy in my junior high school class we called "Reverand"
> > (his father was a pastor).
> > But I don't believe we would call it a nickname if it was the
person's=
> > middle name. (I was baptised Margaret Alma Lindner.
> > Alma is my middle name. At university I went by "Marge".
> > That was my nickname.) I had a second cousin who was called by
> > a shortened form of his middle name: Val Robert Lindner was
> > "Bob" (Bob is a common nickname for Robert). If someone is
> > known by a name other than his first/vorname, in descriptions of
> > that person, it will often be noted as "a.k.a." (Also Known As).
> > For example: Clifford MacDonald, aka Mac. Donald Christian Musial,
> > aka Chris. Val Robert Lindner, aka Bob. Margaret Lindner, aka Marge.
>
> > I've heard of similar naming schemes. And I know that people try
> > to find family connections after learning of such schemes.
> > In my mother's family (and in many of the church entries I
transcribed)=
> > apparently it was common to use the names of the godparents/sponsors
> > at the child's baptism. My mother had two godmothers and one
godfather:=
> > She and all her siblings had two middle names. Often the godparents
are=
> > relatives, but not always. I know that her godfather was her
paternal=
> > (half)uncle and one of my mother's godmothers was the wife of her
> > maternal uncle. I'm not aware of a family relation to the other
godmoth=
er
> > (perhaps a friend).
>
> Meine Antwort:
> By the way - it is an interest question for a genealogy-list, specially
t=
he Sachsen-List.
> I'm not the absolutely specialist for that questions - I know only the
va=
rieties what I have seen !
> Will you send this question to the Sachsen-List or should I do it for
you=