Im Ostpreussen-Forum kam dieser englische Artikel zum Thema.
LS
Russian soldiers believed that German women were their's to use by
right - though it should be added that this revolting doctrine had
been commonplace as late as the napoleonic Wars, e.g. when the British
stormed Badajoz.
In our own case a passing Soviet officer to save my angry
grandfather from being shot preventing the ladies of the household
from being molested by the Central Asian soldiers who had invaded the
house. The officer was chivalry itself and he and grandpapa split a
bottle of vodka together.
I have also read an account by a former American soldier that he
saw both random shooting and rape of German women by U.S. servicemen
though not, I presume on such as extensive a scale.. I believe the
only Allied soldier executed for war-crimes in WW2 was an US sergeant
who raped an Italian. Of course, the Italians were also Allied by
that time.
John (Rohde).
Wow............I had always heard rumors and innuendoes but
this is the first in black and white.
Regards, Robert Lipprandt
Mr. Lipprandt if this is this first "Black and White" account you are aware
of, you must have been asleep for the last 55 years. First hand accounts of
the horrific acts committed by the Soviet hordes when entering Germany in
1944/45 are plentiful. No rumors or innuendoes. These accounts also came
form former Soviet soldiers themselves.
Johann
The same atrocities happened when the Russians and
Cossacks came through East Prussia during World
War I, according to the horrible tales my grandmother
used to tell me. The population was ravaged twice.
Susan
Date sent: Wed, 29 May 2002 13:09:30 -0700
Mr. Lipprandt if this is this first "Black and White" account you are
aware of, you must have been asleep for the last 55 years. First hand
accounts of the horrific acts committed by the Soviet hordes when
entering Germany in 1944/45 are plentiful. No rumors or innuendoes.
These accounts also came form former Soviet soldiers themselves.Johann
I must defend Robert Lipprand on this. These stories may well have been available
to Germans who had a personal interest in them but many people of today's
generation even in Germany are totally oblivious to it.
People in countries other then Germany have had very little access to this material
as English translations were relatively rare. Alex De Zayas' books were an early
exception but he admits himself that he has been relegated to the backwters of
historians for publishing them. As a Harvard grad in Law and History, he has not
once been invited back to speak on the topic. Silence is golden when you have
something to say no one wants to hear.
Just take a look around and tell me how many movies have been made of such
happenings as the greatest single marine disaster of all time or the loss of 2.45
million civilian people (mostly the elderly and children) during the last months of the
war and subsequently. Somehow we got one movie which shows one good German
but the millions of innocents are ignored unless they happened to have been
Jewish.
Somehow history has a strange way of recording the evils of mankind only from one
side of the world.
Fred
. 26 Warren St.
Beverly, NJ 08010
FredRump@earthlink.net
609-386-6846
In our own case a passing Soviet officer to save my angry
grandfather from being shot preventing the ladies of the household
from being molested by the Central Asian soldiers who had invaded the
house. The officer was chivalry itself and he and grandpapa split a
bottle of vodka together.
I was only a kid at the time but I do remember that every Russian officer we came
across was uniformed impeccably, well educated and civil. Some of the younger
officers even spoke a pretty good German. I also know from later discussions with
my mother that the officers were definitely of a different breed of people. One of
them asked my mother for the hand of my 13 year old sister. My mom politely
refused and he was not offended but thought it was the right thing to do before he
even tried to make a move on her. She was oblivious to the whole thing. A
gentleman of the old school. That 13 years old weren't exactly marriage material
was not part of his culture though.
What scared the daylights out of everyone were the mongolian types who were
totally unpredictable especially when they were drunk. They could be sweet and
nice and the next moment pull out a gun and shoot. One of them tried to shoot me
once while slobbering drunk but his handgun would not go off. It was either not
oaded or misfired but an officer saw the seen and arrested him on the spot and
marched him off. This was near the end of '45 when things had settled down a bit in
Berlin.
We also often heard shots within the Russian commendentura (army command
post). It was surrounded by a high fence but the rumor was that they were executing
their own soldiers for failure to obey orders. I think most of this was simple
drunkeness. No proof of that but the pendulum swung quickly from permissable
random violence to strong discipline and order. Life was cheap and I'm sure many a
Russian was shot by their own forces.
I have also read an account by a former American soldier that he
saw both random shooting and rape of German women by U.S. servicemen
though not, I presume on such as extensive a scale.. I believe the
only Allied soldier executed for war-crimes in WW2 was an US sergeant
who raped an Italian. Of course, the Italians were also Allied by
that time.
John (Rohde).
Just about all such things get swept under the rug when your on the winning side.
Only the loser gets tried for war crimes. Every once in a while they make an
example but most officers and non-coms did not want to go against their own troops
and report such things. Shooting of POWs was probably the most common
American war crime other then all the looting which went on everywhere.
Fred
26 Warren St.
Beverly, NJ 08010
FredRump@earthlink.net
609-386-6846
Could this have had anything to do with the lack of the gene to
process alcohol among many Mongolians?
John (Rohde).
P.S.
May I be allowed to say how impressed I am with the maturity and
balance with which such matters are discussed on this list by those
who actually lived through them. I know of other lists where the most
highly coloured, one-sided and emotive language has been used to
describe events centuries and oceans away from their shrill
inquisitors. Perhaps it is Prussianism or just that those who have
experienced and learned see things with more balance and in
proportion.
Whatever the case, hats off to you, ladies and gentlemen!
J.
Date sent: Wed, 29 May 2002 23:38:18 GMT
Could this have had anything to do with the lack of the gene to
process alcohol among many Mongolians?
John (Rohde).
I don't know. I never heard of such a thing but then the Indians have such problems
don't they? Same stock?
Perhaps it is Prussianism or just that those who have
experienced and learned see things with more balance and in
proportion.
Whatever the case, hats off to you, ladies and gentlemen!
What's Prussianism? It can't be a gene as us folks are mongrols from all over
Europe. 
The time is far past and for the young (those who are still around to talk about it)
people much that we saw was almost an adventure. When I think about what I went
through as a child, it's quite amazing to reflect upon it in adulthood. Kids just don't
see the danger. They'll live forever until it's too late.
I remember playing with granades which we found. Some Russian kids living across
the street got partially blown up doing the same thing. On one occasion I remember
this Russian boy running home with a bloody mess of an arm. He wasn't even
crying but then the mother saw him and she went ballistic as can be imagined. He
then started screaming too. Sometimes I wonder whatever happened to that boy
back in Russia with one arm. I'm sure their parents told them not to play with
ammunition but would they listen?
On my part some of the stunts I pulled in Berlin and in Finow/Eberswalde even now
makes my hair curl. I'm now very afraid of hights but then nothing was high
enough to climb on. The most dangerous play was to climb on the ruins. These
walls would just stand there without support and stupid me climbed all over them.
They could have collapsed at any moment.
Then there were the capers to find things to burn for heat and the nightly prowls for
food. It wa sstrictly forbidden to cut down any tree but off we went in the dark of the
night to get a small tree we could manage to cut down and drag home. A 9-10 year
old provider has to do what he can do. At other times and always at night, we (my
cousin Klaus Hartmann and I) would get into a factory and tear out some of their
wooden floor. These were like tarred blocks of wood and they burned like hell.
Once we got caught by a Russian guard and he imprisoned us in a closed truck. We
promised to get him anything if only he would let us go. He wasn't dumb though and
only let my cousin go to get some promised cigarettes we didn't have. He never
came back of course and I didn't get out of there till morning when the guys shift
was over. Then I was scared. Ah, so many stories.
In the end it was an adventure of hide and play seek with the Russians. I spent
several hours, while freezing my butt off, hiding in a rabitt hutch after we were heard
throwing briquetts (compressed soft brown coal) out of some Russian's cellar.
Memories! The worst was the constant hunger and the bitter cold without enough
heat. Your feet were always cold. I still marvel at my mother for getting my sister,
cousin and I through all this. It must have been shear hell for her to see us all so
hungry all the time. Water and flour was soup. Once I found a cow's foot on the
street and we must have cooked that baby for weeks just to get something into the
flour soup. In the spring we had weeds but the winters were really tough.
The most wonderful event? Once I got to to an American food place in Berlin. They
were feeding only children with a heavenly something. I still don't know what it was
but it must have been either rice or tapioca pudding or some kind of porridge. It had
milk in it and the smell was so sweet that I still get misty eyes when thinking about
it. It was pure heaven. I've not been able to reproduce the taste. I guess from my
present perspective that is impossible.
I tried to tell my kids and now my grandchildren about this but it just doesn't
compute. Food? There is always plenty. It still bothers me when a plate is not totally
cleaned. When I see pictures of the starving kids in Africa I think of myself, bloated
stomach and all. I don't really think the rest of the world can empathize as they've
never been there. Hunger is a concept they just don't understand.
Fred
Fred
26 Warren St.
Beverly, NJ 08010
FredRump@earthlink.net
609-386-6846
Yes, it seems it is an identfiable gene that many East Asians and
their Amerindian cousins never evolved.
John.
Hello Fred :
I was seventeen when I joined the German Army in 1942. I fought the Allied
Forces in Italy: American, British, Canadian, Australian, Polish, Indian,
South African, French units, et cetera. My brother was not so "lucky". He
was on the Russian front. A lieutenant in the Infantry. His last letter was
dated January 1945. He was twenty years old when the Russians broke through.
We never heard from him again. When I was released from an Allied prison
camp in Rimini/Italy and returned to Germany, our home in HAMBURG had been
destroyed during the Allied air attacks. Luckily I had an aunt in CHICAGO.
It took me several years to get my visa, and in 1951 I emigrated to the
United States. The first years were rough, but I made it. I have been a
citizen of the United States since 1956. And I am proud of it.
Youth is indestructable. At least we thought so. And what little sunshine we
had in life, we tried to make the most of it. It was not much. And yet, we
never forgot to count our blessings.
May you always have the wind in your back, Fred, and a hand's breadth of
water under your keel.
Tschuess ! Karl-Heinz