19th century German censuses

hannover-l
1

Greetings,

I'm wondering if someone might be able to answer a few
basic questions about German censuses. Specifically,
I'd like to know when census data was first collected,
whether there are census records for the Kingdom of
Hanover during the 19th century, and how I might
access records for the Harz Mountains region (Herzberg
am Harz, Osterode am Harz, etc). I'm trying to
determine if there was a Hempel family in the region
during that period.

Thanks for any insights you may have.

Best regards,

Kenneth

2

Hallo Kenneth,

I'm wondering if someone might be able to answer a few
basic questions about German censuses. Specifically,
I'd like to know when census data was first collected,

for the kingdom of Hannover in 1850-ties

whether there are census records for the Kingdom of
Hanover during the 19th century,

There are no records, but the lists are in the archiv in Hannover

  and how I might

access records for the Harz Mountains region (Herzberg
am Harz, Osterode am Harz, etc). I'm trying to
determine if there was a Hempel family in the region
during that period.

You can write to the archiv, but without knowing the village/town where they should search it will cost a lot of time and money. The adress is:

Landesarchiv Hannover
Am Archiv 1
30169 Hannover

Hannover@nla.niedersachsen.de

3

To Ken and others: There are a good number 19th century German censuses available, but they tend to be rather "hit-and-miss" as a whole. Some are quite detailed, others provide only scant info at best. And as Suzanne wrote earlier, without knowing the village or town where they were located, searching blindly will cost you a lot of time and money :: and frustration. There are no master indexes to be had at present, you must pinpoint - or narrow down considerably - the town or village or city in question. And every area in Germany is different in regards to the depth of their holdings.

Your best bet is to find out what is available per the LDS [Mormon Church] indexes online. Or stop in at your local LDS FHC [Family History Center] to search their microfiche holdings for the region in question. There you can order in the specific microfilms you choose to review later at length. None of this is terribly expensive, in fact it is a great bargain versus any other means available currently. You can also make print-outs of anything you find on the microfilms or microfiches.

Since census information is a much sought after subject on these lists, I'll include from the Niedersachsen [Rootsweb] archives a series of posts - excerpted a bit for clarity - from a few years back that were partially cross-linked to Hannover-L. They cover a lot of ground and should provide a helpful overview for anyone still in the dark on this subject.

Jb

4

Hello,

     If you run a search here by using the name of Hempel with Osterode, you
will find a listing that does connect that name and town:

http://meta.genealogy.net/metasuche/index.jsp

That should lead you to this:

http://db.genealogy.net/vereine/daten_search.php?familiennamen=hempel&orte=o
sterode&verein=CompGen

  The name of Bernd Scholze is there with email address. Perhaps he can
give you some information.

Barbara

5

JB, I live in southern Netherlands right next to the Beliguim border so
sometimes I go to the Morman family center in Antwerpen to order films and
for Holland no problem, but for Germany I am not allowed to order any films,
the center in Vlissingen ( over the phone) says the same thing "no german
films are allowed to be ordered" from Beliguim or the Netherlands. So what
now? any suggestions would be greatly appreicated.

6

Hi Brouwers

German censuses are protected by German privacy laws, much of which is covered to the best of my knowledge under the Bundesdatenschutzgesetz (BDSG), or "Federal Data Protection Act." The BDSG specifically applies to (1) German federal offices, (2) German state offices, and (3) private bodies that process or use information for business, professional, or trade purposes. Nominally these laws have been put in place to protect the right to privacy for German citizens from being impaired through the handling of their personal data. The government in Germany cannot release information it collects by the bucketload from its citizens for 100 years.

This whole issue has become something of a growing problem for Germans, namely in deciding exactly what should considered public as opposed to private data, and nowhere is this more clearly visible than with data used for genealogical purposes. As it is, certain groups in Germany are working on extracting useable census data from historical records, but little of this is available currently.

Most believe that German privacy laws lose their power at the international frontiers of Germany. For example, I have seen a few films in the past labeled "only available outside of Germany". However I am quite certain I discovered, a good number of years ago now, that LDS abides by these privacy laws to the extent that NO German filmed records will be made available to Western Europeans, including Germans in LDS centers in Europe. The only way someone from Western Europe would be able to access those films would be to actually visit a LDS center outside Europe. Whether LDS, in areas like England, abides by this agreement I do not know. To my knowledge this is an LDS policy, and has nothing to do with policies or provisions put forth by governing bodies like the European Union or European Commission (of which I know dreadfully little).

German privacy laws do not cover church books I believe, so that is obviously an area one could key in on. Also, if an individual can show a legitimate reason, other than say frivolous data collection, that they should be allowed access to data otherwise covered under these privacy laws (as in a direct familial connection), the government has little choice but to release it to them.

Perhaps a few on the German side of the list can add a little more (or corrections as necessary). Or follow up on the smart suggestions given by both Rena and Maureen.

Jb

7

Is there really anything on the census records that are not available on
birth records (if I knew where to find them)? Does 'direct' mean that I
could not get anything on the siblings of my direct ancestor?

I know the census records in USA help with 1) family connections, 2)
approximately birth year, and 3) birth and potential death locations. Not
much that is not available on most birth, death and marriage records -- IF
you know where and when to look. To me, census is just a 'clue' to where to
look for really proof records. They are usually not available until the
person recorded on the census is assumed deceased.

It sure would be nice to be able to determine 1) what is on each census and
2) under what circumstances I can actually get some information from them --
even if 'filtered' by an intermediately.

Bonita Hillmer

Surname: HILLMER HILMER NEUMAN KROEGER VOGHT MEYER etc in now Niedersachsen
/ Luneburg, Kreis Uelzen region and Hamburg Area

8

Is there really anything on the census records that are not available on
birth records (if I knew where to find them)?

Bonita you might want to look over the beginning of this thread from a day or two back, in case you haven't seen it yet. My post then was based on an older series of posts from a few years back that gives a pretty good overview of what you can realistically expect. In a nutshell, depending on the amount of LUCK you have (mostly based on the year and area in question), Niedersachsen censuses could resemble anything from our 1800 US censuses (very basic, with head of household listed only) to those found in say the 1850 or 1860 US censuses, with complete families listed, to include names + ages of each member, and their relationships. The caveat: it is a highly "hit and miss" proposition when it comes to overall availability of theses records.

Does 'direct' mean that I could not get anything on the siblings of my direct ancestor?

You have a fighting chance there, as long as you can provide proper documentation (often a family sketch will do). But I'm not sure this is the approach you should take. See more below.

I know the census records in USA help with 1) family connections, 2)
approximately birth year, and 3) birth and potential death locations. Not
much that is not available on most birth, death and marriage records -- IF
you know where and when to look. To me, census is just a 'clue' to where to
look for really proof records. They are usually not available until the
person recorded on the census is assumed deceased.

Well put it this way, while the amount of information rendered is admittedly limited (just like our censuses of that period), can you imagine a nicer record to show those in the family who may be interested than a copy of your early family back in Germany, to include street address and the entire family listed by individual names? All that in wonderful German penmanship. Now keep in mind, the Gods will have to be with you on this, as that's a "best case" scenario. Many - even most - will not be so lucky.

It sure would be nice to be able to determine 1) what is on each census and
2) under what circumstances I can actually get some information from them --
even if 'filtered' by an intermediately.

Your best bet being in the States is to use an LDS FHC facility, and not to bother looking for these records from the German side. Better yet, read that post I alluded to earlier. It's all in there.

9

Hello Kenneth,

     If you run a search in the Hannover archives for "Hempel Osterode", you
will get something with Hempel. There is more than one Osterode. Go here:

    There are some very early church records with the LDS of Osterode(Harz).
Also some in the 1800's in Herzberg.

Barbara

10

Here is a brief guide as to what to expect when it comes to census records in the former kingdom of Hannover. My knowledge of these censuses comes mainly from research I did in them during the 1990's at LDS, mostly for Hildesheim and the city of Hannover. Census returns starting around 1850 (and later) will offer the biggest bang for the buck, as they list the individual members that comprise the family units. Earlier censuses will list the heads of the households only, much as you find in U.S. census records for the same periods.

The census data for the residents of each community, village or town was recorded in a so called "Urliste" which was duly signed and sealed by the parish chairman or mayor. Today these census lists are preserved in the State Archives of Hannover, Aurich, Osnabr�ck and Stade, in a number of town archives, and some district archives (Kreisarchive). The LDS church has filmed most of the census records found at the Hannover State Archive, and in the town archives of Emden and Hildesheim. As important as this filming is, it covers the holdings of only 3 of about 25 relevant archives, and is mainly of use to researchers who already know the town or village their ancestors came from.

It should be remembered that there are a number of sizable gaps to be found in the Hannover census holdings, partly as a consequence of damages sustained at the archives in WWII.

Censuses that include the heads of the households only:

- Assorted early regional census records

- Censuses of the French occupation period 1811-1813

- Kingdom of Hannover censuses of 1833 to 1848

Censuses that include the heads of the households, plus wives, children, foster children, farmhands, maids, servants, foreigners and visitors. Also boarding schools, hospitals and maternity wards, and prisons in the area. No soldiers were enumerated. Information provided: name, address, marital status, profession, age and religion for each person. Street addresses and house numbers are also included.

- Kingdom of Hannover census lists of 1852, 1855, 1858, 1861 and 1864

Some of the information above can be found at the 1852 census project website of Jens and Regina Koppe in Bremen. Census project website: http://www.hist.de

11

Thank you JB, This will be the last I respond. But this is great info
about what years the cenus gives what information . Thanks to everyone who
responded.. Anna Marie Schmitz